KVR Audio

paulbreeze · Post by **paulbreeze** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:53 pm

No word about the modular interface; "they promised" to open it for the v2.

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:56 pm

ok...

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:56 pm

woodsdenis wrote:
Shandar wrote:I'm ok with the subscription model, but I'd have hoped for something around 100 euros/year.
It seems a bit expensive for something I use as a hobbyist.
It's not strictly a subscription model as you own it outright. However it seems to blur the lines with its update pricing structure.

Reminds me of Waves WUP plan

Can I continue using the software when my upgrade plan expires?
Yes, you can. This is not a subscription; you own a perpetual license. The upgrade plan is only required if you want access to the latest version, after the 12-month period that comes with your initial purchase has expired.

Does Bitwig Studio now come at an annual cost of the upgrade price?
No, you can wait to renew your license, until you discover a new feature you like in the latest version of Bitwig Studio - and then get back on board again.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:57 pm

paulbreeze wrote:No word about the modular interface; "they promised" to open it for the v2.

https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/behind-the ... arity.html

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:58 pm

Numanoid wrote:
Why is this upgrade plan better than our previous model?
We will be able to release key features as they are ready - instead of holding them back for major releases. This enables us to offer you new feature and content updates more regularly.
How many major releases have there been of Bitwig so far? I know of v1

So what key features will they hold back that is not included in next major release v2 ?

In theory two , 1.2 and 1.3. The only real advantage I can see in their approach, if I understand it correctly is the upgrade price is the same no matter when you do it. For example Cubase 5 to 9 costs xxx and would increase as updates appear every year. In Bitwig it would always be the same.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:59 pm

I think the subscription model is confusing ? So I guess it's $165 for 12 months ? So after that 12 months your stuck on let's say Bitwig 2.2.1 or something like that and at the 18month period 2.5 comes out , and you don't upgrade then at 24 months 3.1 comes out then ( nope) 36 month 4.0.3 comes out and it make peanut butter toast for you and your like OK take my money Bishes !!! I'm gonna upgrade from my 2.2.1 to 4.0.3 so would it be $165 ??????.. Would you pay another $165 then and be good? Just kind of confusing ... As much as I don't care for Reason there $150 upgrade model from any version seems kinda like the same thing , No ?

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:05 pm

Numanoid wrote:
paulbreeze wrote:No word about the modular interface; "they promised" to open it for the v2.
https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/behind-the ... arity.html

Or the network collaboration.

There were the advertised 2 big 'V2' features from day 1.

pc999 · Post by **pc999** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:09 pm

I really dont like the new license mode and way to expensive, I will probably going to pass on this.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:11 pm

pc999 wrote:I really dont like the new license mode and way to expensive, I will probably going to pass on this.

Yeah it is very Milkman ish ....

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:13 pm

fedexnman wrote:I think the subscription model is confusing ?

I think so too, and as I understand based on this statement v1 users are allowed to be left sitting on the fence to upgrade, until they see the need for it or not.

Does Bitwig Studio now come at an annual cost of the upgrade price?
No, you can wait to renew your license, until you discover a new feature you like in the latest version of Bitwig Studio - and then get back on board again.

So will take bring more or less money into the Bitwig coffin?

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:17 pm

fedexnman wrote:I think the subscription model is confusing ? So I guess it's $165 for 12 months ? So after that 12 months your stuck on let's say Bitwig 2.2.1 or something like that and at the 18month period 2.5 comes out , and you don't upgrade then at 24 months 3.1 comes out then ( nope) 36 month 4.0.3 comes out and it make peanut butter toast for you and your like OK take my money Bishes !!! I'm gonna upgrade from my 2.2.1 to 4.0.3 so would it be $165 ??????.. Would you pay another $165 then and be good? Just kind of confusing ... As much as I don't care for Reason there $150 upgrade model from any version seems kinda like the same thing , No ?

Except that if your 2.2.1 version has a bug in it that isn't fixed before 2.2.2 and your at the end of your 12 months your stuck with it. It's the 12 month limit that worries me, their reasonig is that there won't be any major point realeases but rolling ones, the advantage of point releases is you know what's on offer, this way you don't and it's a bit of a lottery as far as when these individual rollouts occur and a if they are of interest to you.

It's is like Waves WUP with one crucial difference , Waves 9 has been out for years with numerous fixes for new OS etc with no need to pay WUP. When it goes to 10 then you can if you wish.

ezelkow1 · Post by **ezelkow1** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:20 pm

Yea I think this subscription model will push me to just not upgrade until it has advanced a fair amount. I generally end up doing upgrades fairly early as there is always just that one thing that seems really cool to me. Ive done it with both ableton and reason where somehow I talk myself in to upgrading and both of them usually end up providing of a wealth of value later on in a major version number anyway with unexpected new features. Im also secure in the knowledge that any new features they add will have the bugs worked out before they move on to the next major version.

However with this now I feel as though I could be easily penalized later for upgrading early, so I may as well either wait it out until I feel they have added an absolute ton of features, or the inevitable 50% off subscription upgrade sale from a third party site. At that point I can move to the komplete model of staying 2rev's behind and waiting for the 1year post release upgrade discount

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:28 pm

I think many users have several DAWs, and maybe we buy into some of them to check out, without making them our go-to-DAW.

This kind of sub model sort of forces users like that to think about making Bitwig the no 1 DAW or get out.

So it could give Bitwig a more hardcore user base.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:29 pm

woodsdenis wrote:
fedexnman wrote:I think the subscription model is confusing ? So I guess it's $165 for 12 months ? So after that 12 months your stuck on let's say Bitwig 2.2.1 or something like that and at the 18month period 2.5 comes out , and you don't upgrade then at 24 months 3.1 comes out then ( nope) 36 month 4.0.3 comes out and it make peanut butter toast for you and your like OK take my money Bishes !!! I'm gonna upgrade from my 2.2.1 to 4.0.3 so would it be $165 ??????.. Would you pay another $165 then and be good? Just kind of confusing ... As much as I don't care for Reason there $150 upgrade model from any version seems kinda like the same thing , No ?
Except that if your 2.2.1 version has a bug in it that isn't fixed before 2.2.2 and your at the end of your 12 months your stuck with it. It's the 12 month limit that worries me, their reasonig is that there won't be any major point realeases but rolling ones, the advantage of point releases is you know what's on offer, this way you don't and it's a bit of a lottery as far as when these individual rollouts occur and a if they are of interest to you.

It's is like Waves WUP with one crucial difference , Waves 9 has been out for years with numerous fixes for new OS etc with no need to pay WUP. When it goes to 10 then you can if you wish.

Fair point .... I had to roll back an upgrade using Tracktion (many) and StudioOne 3 before . You know how upgrades go fix one bug create a new one at same time ....

...I really don't think the subscription model is that bad if you can rollback if you have a bug . It is similar to Reason upgrade path in a sense ...

jclosed · Post by **jclosed** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:29 pm

I already said it in the BitWig forum, but I will say it again.

I am not really against (kind of) subscription, but the yearly renewal price is far too high. For Cubase you pay €49 for an x.5 upgrade one year, and €99 for a x.0 upgrade the next year. So that's about the same amount of money in two years, that BitWig cost for updating in only one year.

Maybe if they would ask a monthly payment of €12 ~ €13 I would consider it, but paying the price to buy the program and a year later almost half that price again? Sorry - that's too much.

And that's sad, because BitWig itself seems a very nice program. Certainly this update makes it an ever greater program. But, in my humble opinion, it's too pricy. Especially if you compare that to the pricing (and update/renewal pricing) of other programs (like Ableton Live, Cubase, Sonar Platinum and so on).

bitwig 2 is here