KVR Audio

ezelkow1 · Post by **ezelkow1** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:32 pm

Numanoid wrote:I think many users have several DAWs, and maybe we buy into some of them to check out, without making them our go-to-DAW.

This kind of sub model sort of forces users like that to think about making Bitwig the no 1 DAW or get out.

So it could give Bitwig a more hardcore user base.

Yea but a hardcore user base does not make a company money, new purchases make them money. If you manage to widdle down your userbase to a select set of hardcore users you have seriously impacted your income since now those are the only ones paying your upgrade fees. It also puts doubt in possible new purchasers heads. I would think the last thing you would want would be to start to limit your user base.

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:36 pm

Obligatory happy cat pic!!!!!!!

They've been pretty slow to update overall, fades/x-fades are pretty important imho.

Have no clue about the new licensing model, might demo the latest to see if it's worth looking into.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:37 pm

ezelkow1 wrote:Yea but a hardcore user base does not make a company money, new purchases make them money.

With the launch of v2 hardcore users will add $169 in upgrade money every 12 months, which should add up to a bit of income.

Hardcore users are the kind that would pay to stay up to date from day one, and not sit on the fence waiting.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:42 pm

Numanoid wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:Yea but a hardcore user base does not make a company money, new purchases make them money.
With the launch of v2 hardcore users will add $169 in upgrade money every 12 months, which should add up to a bit of income.

Hardcore users are the kind that would pay to stay up to date from day one, and not sit on the fence waiting.

I don't know... you got them Reason users that'll stay on the fence or flagpole sit ... Now that's what I call hardcore .

ohnIll just stay on 6.5 , 9 ain't got nothing. .. it's hilarious. .

Reefius · Post by **Reefius** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:46 pm

Basically they will now wait a little over a year to release a big new feature, so everyone will pay for another year to be able to use that feature. And all they will release in between are bugfixes, so you will basically be paying to be a beta tester.

In the end it will be more expensive than Cubase and Ableton Live.

Bitwig staff must really be thinking we're a bunch of idiots...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Cost of ownership is high over time assuming you need to upgrade to get bug fixes etc, more expensive than Live who only do paid upgrades every 2-3 years. I think for a lot of people BWS isn't the primary DAW, and this may put people off.

I am interested to see how all their CV/trigger modules work (with what soundcards/hardware) or I it just an internal simulated CV/trigger. Its all very fun and funky, but Reactor Blocks really has this covered and can be sued in any DAW....

If Live drop 10 with a lot of features I like in BWS included in live, I am not even sure I would bother to upgrade, but I will keep an open mind until I have tried the demo (given the crap pound, the upgrade will cost us more than BWS 1 cost in the UK!)

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:43 pm

fedexnman wrote:I don't know... you got them Reason users that'll stay on the fence or flagpole sit ... Now that's what I call hardcore . ohnIll just stay on 6.5 , 9 ain't got nothing. .. it's hilarious. .

I think that there are literally millions of new potential users for daws every year, that people who had no interest in making music this year will or may next year, etc, etc, not to mention people coming into adult-hood with new jobs and money to spend for toys. I would think that finding new customers would not be difficult, if the product is shiny enough and doesn't cost a fortune.

Then, of course, some other people buy and sell them multiple times over the years depending on how strong the force is.

A small-ish company like Bitwig likely doesn't have to sell a ton of product to be profitable, or to pay their bills. Do the math. Say Cubase 9 sold 100k upgrades worldwide at $200 or so, that's $20 mil. Bitwig can likely do far lower than that and still be profitable.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:49 pm

According to the website, these are the major new things in v2

Devices and updates
-A new Modulation paradigm (24 new modulators)
-Polysynth (added OSC mix and filter waveshaping modes)
-Remote control (for every device)
-Dynamic displays everywhere
-Fades and crossfades
-VST3 support
-Smart tool switching and improved editor workflow
-Dashboard/Notfications/New Menu system

New Devices
-Spectrum analyzer
-Phaser
-Pitch Shifter
-Tree Monster (ring mod)
-Multi Note (Chorder)
-Note Harmonizer/Length/Echo/Latch/Velocity

Better Hardware integration
-MIDI CC
-MIDI Program Change
-MIDI Timecode
-HW Clock Out
-HW CV Instrument
-HW CV Out

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:51 pm

LawrenceF wrote:A small-ish company like Bitwig likely doesn't have to sell a ton of product to be profitable, or to pay their bills.

How do you know how small/big they are ?

Are there any links to their annual statements, income, revenue and such data ?

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:17 pm

Maybe the best feature in the upgrade, a simple button

If only life in general could be so simple, a button to control evertyhing!

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:24 pm

There is one big reason why their new license model sucks quite big: Apple and their annual OS update cycle.

The yearly update to macOS is breaking things, developers try to catch up. But now with bitwig when it stops working or having a big bug you will have to pay to get it fixed.

That sucks big time.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:50 pm

Ow man...reading this i am glad image line has lifetime upgrades/updates...

12 month period is over, 1 bug isn't solved and then one has to pay 165 to get that bug fixed?? LMAO.....

I would rather pay every month a small amount in a subscription form than this....

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:51 pm

IMHO 160 is much too expensive per year. Tracktion is 30 per year (more or less), on Mac you pay 199 for Logic with updates for a couple of years. Pretty much unreasonable ....

Also no use on Touch-UI enhancements for version 2 ...

maybe I better stick with version 1 for the time being ....

just my thoughts

best

Lejurai · Post by **Lejurai** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:52 pm

pc999 wrote:I really dont like the new license mode and way to expensive, I will probably going to pass on this.

Same here.. I sense that there will be quite a few BWS licenses available at the marketplace soon

Heck. Reaper is 30€/license renewal and you get 2 full versions with that price. That what Bitwig does, is that they directly sit on top of the users and let the shit flow.

Besides, I've had my BWS license from 2014 and what's the big price for that? NOTHING. Wasn't early adopter though but anyways.

I have a feeling that Live10 will be something so special that Bitwig has to change their subscription plans if they want to keep their customers. I know I'll be switchin to Live really fast if they don't.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:53 pm

What do you think about the new features in v2 ?

bitwig 2 is here