bitwig 2 is here

[woggle]

Also the $169 upgrade/subscription is WAAAAYYYYY overpriced. Something like $100 would be a lot fairer. And they really should consider introducing a monthly plan if they want to go down the much maligned (and rightfully so) subscription path.

I agree regarding the $100 top as a fair price for an annual subscription. But the monthly subscription will not work for them, because, since people could pay and renew anytime, they would only pay the subscription for the months where there were releases that matter to them, and that way, they would end like paying just three or four times per year - even at the current $169 annual, we, the users, would pay less than $100.

Monthly subscriptions only work when users lose access to the program when they stop paying, like it happens with Adobe or East West.

Or like Cakewalk's rent-to-own model. You have to pay at least 12 consecutive months to own it. Any less than that and you'll lose access once you stop paying.

I like Cakewalk's model - you can buy at a bit of a discount, rent for a bit more, and upgrade to the absolutely latest version when you feel like it (once you own it - which I don't) Better again is FL's model of free upgrades forever. And Reaper's model is very fair as well - free upgrades for a couple of years at least and then not much when you have to pay

[fmr]

I like Cakewalk's model - you can buy at a bit of a discount, rent for a bit more, and upgrade to the absolutely latest version when you feel like it (once you own it - which I don't) Better again is FL's model of free upgrades forever. And Reaper's model is very fair as well - free upgrades for a couple of years at least and then not much when you have to pay

Reaper model is amazing. If you are not a very successful musician, with a return income of more than $10.000 a year, you can buy a license for two major versions, including ALL updates, for $60. I can't see anyone else doing this.

[.jon]

Reaper model is amazing. If you are not a very successful musician, with a return income of more than $10.000 a year, you can buy a license for two major versions, including ALL updates, for $60. I can't see anyone else doing this.

Not every developer is a two-man company, the owner and lead being a multi-millionare who wouldn't have to work a day in his life either. They make the software literally for their own use, and make it available, untested, for others against moderate fee that covers the expenses of distribution and related services. It's an exceptional situation born out of external circumstances, not something that can be used as a relevant comparison to other DAWs.

[woggle]

Reaper model is amazing. If you are not a very successful musician, with a return income of more than $10.000 a year, you can buy a license for two major versions, including ALL updates, for $60. I can't see anyone else doing this.

Not every developer is a two-man company, the owner and lead being a multi-millionare who wouldn't have to work a day in his life either. They make the software literally for their own use, and make it available, untested, for others against moderate fee that covers the expenses of distribution and related services. It's an exceptional situation born out of external circumstances, not something that can be used as a relevant comparison to other DAWs.

for sure - the dev situation is both a strength and a weakness - but FL is close to as good a deal although buying in is a bit dearer up front.

[fmr]

Not every developer is a two-man company, the owner and lead being a multi-millionare who wouldn't have to work a day in his life either. They make the software literally for their own use, and make it available, untested, for others against moderate fee that covers the expenses of distribution and related services. It's an exceptional situation born out of external circumstances, not something that can be used as a relevant comparison to other DAWs.

Cockos is a two man company? Then their work is even more amazing. They achieved much more than Bitwig, IMO.

[SLiC]

One thing is for sure, almost every discussion here and on other forums is about the subscription model and is predominantly negative.

That is a pretty awful bit of marketing for BWS first major update....unless it was to make enough noise to hide the fact that they didn't delver the features they promised all the users in V2 (modular system, network sharing), in which case it was political genius of the highest level (make your own bad news day and slip it in under the radar!

[fmr]

I think its a suicidal move. Bitwig has to step back really quick, or this will be the beginning of the end for them, IMO.

[woggle]

Not every developer is a two-man company, the owner and lead being a multi-millionare who wouldn't have to work a day in his life either. They make the software literally for their own use, and make it available, untested, for others against moderate fee that covers the expenses of distribution and related services. It's an exceptional situation born out of external circumstances, not something that can be used as a relevant comparison to other DAWs.

Cockos is a two man company? Then their work is even more amazing. They achieved much more than Bitwig, IMO.

I remember Justin and Christophe, then Schwa - then Christophe left

but wait, there's more ...

http://www.cockos.com/team.php


and getting back on topic, I was interested in Bitwig but thought it a bit underdeveloped. Will have a look again in a couple of years maybe but at the proposed pricing I am less interested than I was

[chk071]

Not every developer is a two-man company, the owner and lead being a multi-millionare who wouldn't have to work a day in his life either. They make the software literally for their own use, and make it available, untested, for others against moderate fee that covers the expenses of distribution and related services. It's an exceptional situation born out of external circumstances, not something that can be used as a relevant comparison to other DAWs.

Cockos is a two man company? Then their work is even more amazing. They achieved much more than Bitwig, IMO.

I remember Justin and Christophe, then Schwa - then Christophe left

but wait, there's more ...

http://www.cockos.com/team.php

Well, no. Those two are the only ones which get "paid" for development. Paid in brackets, because Justin made a fortune with selling Winamp to AOL, and probably doesn't need, and most likely won't, make a living of Reaper.

Anyway, it's a pretty special situation in that company, so it shouldn't be used as a comparison in any way.

[.jon]

Cockos is a two man company? Then their work is even more amazing. They achieved much more than Bitwig, IMO.

There used to be a few more, and the quality isn't at all amazing even though the sheer number of features is. They don't have any serious concern or ambitions about usability, and a significant part of usability improvements are provided by the user community who don't get paid.

TBH the programs are really quite different in their workflows and not directly comparable. BWS isn't suited for serious audio recording, and Reaper has no non-linear composing features. There's Live, BWS and FLS as one group, then all the old-fashioned linear DAWs like Reaper, Cubase etc, then modular ones. It's not that simple to say who of these has achieved more, but Reaper certainly does not have the same level of attention to detail and polish as BWS has.

[MorpherX]

An alternative to Bitwig and Live is Reaper 5 with Playtime or the upcoming Mixcraft 8.
Mixcraft 8 is amazing is worth waiting for (some weeks).
Both are much cheeper and even better regarding features and customer service (their forums) and uses no kind of dongles.
Especially Mixcraft 7/8 is easier to use and Reaper has many usefull options and scripts.
Nowadays I would not recommand Bitwig or Live to anyone.

[Daags]

in the version 2 announcement they simultaneously confirm that (a) they are failing to deliver key promises for version 2 (b) asking you to pay 160 euro once a year - after initially paying almost 400 - for more promises, unspecified this time (which I suppose they think gives them more wiggle room by not specifying what they are promising).

and I mean, this doesn't even acknowledge the fact youre being asked that 160 per year to pay for bug fixes and stability updates AND EMAIL SUPPORT (dear god!) which is the touch of death in itself.

honestly, if this kind of scheme is what BitWig have to do to make things work, financially, well, this is the death knell for BitWig. they're done. we will never see a version 3 under this kind of insane scheme. i hope they face reality soon, and figure out the finances in a more rational way - if that's even possible.


also, coming up with a scheme like this - particularly in relation to the implications on bug fixes and stability updates - puts a big onus on them, imo, to make doubly sure that every new customer explicitly confirms that they fully understand what they're essentially signing up for when they buy BitWig. otherwise it is, imo, tantamount to willfull deception.

[loungepanda]

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

[Coockie1176ln]

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

they promised modulare but removed from their site but wellcome here

[SLiC]

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

It was on the web site since launch...until very recently- 'coming in V2 open modular environment and network etc' with pictures and a full description of the features.

The new wording on the web site says something like (the new modulators) are 'one step closer to the modular environment'.

Personally I don't have an issue with them not making these features in V2 and needing a cash injection to keep going (we have had a lot of free updates in V1), its just the way they have gone about everything that seems strange....just removing things from the web site and hoping no one would notice!

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!