bitwig 2 is here

[LawrenceF]

Frankly, if I were a user I'd give them a pass on the modular stuff, as long as it shows up in the v2 cycle.

We maybe have to think like adults and remember that not everything we (ourselves) plan to do always happens on schedule. That would be the question I would ask them.... "Is the modular stuff still happening in the V2 cycle?"

And maybe stop taking every comment like it's a literal promise from a girlfriend, and more just a plan that got delayed?

[SLiC]

Well clearly it isn't a major version since it's not included.

Legalese aside, It's naive to expect such a comprehensive feature to be ready at version 2.

Utterly rediculous. v1 to V2 is obviously a major paid update and modular (and networking) was promised almost 2 years ago when the product was launched, in fact this promise was only removed from the web site a few months ago after being there for years.

It's not legalise, you were just incorrect when you said I was wrong, better to just move along....

[ezelkow1]

Frankly, if I were a user I'd give them a pass on the modular stuff, as long as it shows up in the v2 cycle.

We maybe have to think like adults and remember that not everything we (ourselves) plan to do always happens on schedule. That would be the question I would ask them.... "Is the modular stuff still happening in the V2 cycle?"

And maybe stop taking every comment like it's a literal promise from a girlfriend, and more just a plan that got delayed?

Sure I understand it was definitely possible it wouldnt be ready in time for v2, I have no problem giving devs slack for large features that are coming soon within a certain versioning time frame.

However this now introduces a problem when you include the subscription model. There are now no guarantees that by paying for your upgrade to v2 that the originally promised modular system will ever actually exist in v2 within your subscription timeline. Had they left updates at 'you pay a fee and get everything from v2.x->v2.9999', then you could be fairly sure of what you would be getting for your money. Now its a complete crapshoot.

They could also promise that they will have it out within a 1 year timeframe, but what happens when its buggy as hell and introduces another 100 bugs that wont possibly be fixed within a year, now you have your wonderful new feature even though its busted to hell

Changing from a versioning based scheme to a time based scheme makes users HAVE to hang on every comment and promise, because any little delay screws them over directly. They are no longer only minorly impacted by a delay in development, with a version they would just have to wait longer but would still eventually get what they paid for. Now they are actually losing value in their product as things get delayed and not released on time

[LawrenceF]

True. I'd ask that question before buying in, will the modular stuff hit before my current buy in expires. If they don't answer it, and I expect that or want that, I wouldn't buy it until they released it.

If they told me Yes in an email, I'd consider that a financial commitment, and hold them to it.

[SLiC]

Frankly, if I were a user I'd give them a pass on the modular stuff, as long as it shows up in the v2 cycle.

We maybe have to think like adults and remember that not everything we (ourselves) plan to do always happens on schedule. That would be the question I would ask them.... "Is the modular stuff still happening in the V2 cycle?"

And maybe stop taking every comment like it's a literal promise from a girlfriend, and more just a plan that got delayed?

Yes, the website now says they are 'one step closer' to the modular environment with.V2 (no mention of networking anware?) . I am happy to wait for this to be added before upgrading, V2 bugs may be chased down by then as well unless you really need a lot of modulation options, I suspect a lot of people will wait to upgrade.

[Rappo Clappo]

Frankly, if I were a user I'd give them a pass on the modular stuff, as long as it shows up in the v2 cycle.

We maybe have to think like adults and remember that not everything we (ourselves) plan to do always happens on schedule. That would be the question I would ask them.... "Is the modular stuff still happening in the V2 cycle?"

And maybe stop taking every comment like it's a literal promise from a girlfriend, and more just a plan that got delayed?

Hmm.. lol well, what if I just get another girlfriend?

Any way, it's obvious that in the real world you can't run a company like that.

[loungepanda]

Well clearly it isn't a major version since it's not included.

Legalese aside, It's naive to expect such a comprehensive feature to be ready at version 2.

Utterly rediculous. v1 to V2 is obviously a major paid update and modular (and networking) was promised almost 2 years ago when the product was launched, in fact this promise was only removed from the web site a few months ago after being there for years.

It's not legalise, you were just incorrect when you said I was wrong, better to just move along....

Well, tough shit. The modular environment is not ready, clearly. Would you rather they release it in a half-baked state? (*cough* Max4Live *cough)

[fmr]

Any way, it's obvious that in the real world you can't run a company like that.

Apparenlty, yuo can. What remains to be seen is for how long.

[LawrenceF]

Yes, the website now says they are 'one step closer' to the modular environment with.V2 (no mention of networking anware?) . I am happy to wait for this to be added before upgrading, V2 bugs may be chased down by then as well unless you really need a lot of modulation options, I suspect a lot of people will wait to upgrade.

I think they'll learn from that, to be more concise, or more vague. Obviously, everyone took the initial marketing to mean 2.0, when technically, 2.x is "the next major version" every step along the way. If they weren't sure they could deliver it at 2.0, as opposed to 2.3 or something, they should have worded that better to keep the drama queens at bay.

Steiny learned that lesson long ago, how to be "usefully vague".

[SLiC]

Well clearly it isn't a major version since it's not included.

Legalese aside, It's naive to expect such a comprehensive feature to be ready at version 2.

Utterly rediculous. v1 to V2 is obviously a major paid update and modular (and networking) was promised almost 2 years ago when the product was launched, in fact this promise was only removed from the web site a few months ago after being there for years.

It's not legalise, you were just incorrect when you said I was wrong, better to just move along....

Well, tough shit. The modular environment is not ready, clearly. Would you rather they release it in a half-baked state? (*cough* Max4Live *cough)

A minute ago you were saying it wasn't even promised, now you say 'tough shit' that it wasn't delivered as promised? Tough shit on who, their customer? Why not just wait until it was ready before making the release we all expected (they had 3 years) and do a paid for .5 release now.

[Rappo Clappo]

@SLiC

Bitwig is existing since 2009. So they had 7.5 years til now. It's not a new company.

[.jon]

"Twitter generation" that would be 65-80% of the adult population in countries with wide-spread access to internet, percentage depending on the level of technological and educational development of the society.

[LawrenceF]

This is why almost no DAW company talks about their future plans, or frame it very carefully when they do, because stuff happens, and somebody always gets pissed off when you miss a planned deadline or release. It's better to just drop stuff when it's ready and surprise everyone, but then people complain that you're not telling them anything.

Can't win really, but most companies do seem to take the second path to avoid that other particular kind of drama.

[mutantdog]

I'm fairly certain Live's major upgrade cycle was a lot more frequent until around 7 or 8 (12 - 18 months..?). In those days the versions weren't so significant either. Now i look at Live 9.7 and consider how much its developed in one iteration without them asking for any extra money (although Push 2 could be considered a sort of paid upgrade).

I've had an eye on Bitwig though as the DAW that could tempt me away from Live. I reported a few things around 1.1 that would need improvement to compete with Live, i don't know if they've been implemented or not but someone posted earlier about the crappy undo still being crappy so i expect the same all round. Still, i was very interested when i saw v2 announced until i saw the price plan.

And with that, I'm out. Frankly, this is terribly unappealing. I expect it will probably lose them a lot of their existing "second-DAW" userbase and do little to attract any new customers.

I've seen an awful lot of Cakewalk promos over the last few months suggesting their Sonar model wasn't working out as planned either.

[Daags]

lol .... this loungepanda dude should be completely disregarded. here's the log of this entire sub-topic, in one concise post so as to clearly illustrate that the dude was both wrong, refused to acnowledge he was wrong, and then only tacitly admits he was wrong.. but only by virtue of the fact he reduces the complaint down to 'tough shit'.

the only naive thing to believe at this stage is to believe in what BitWig are trying to peddle here with this new scheme since, as I stated in the post that set this sub-topic off, they're simultaneously failing to deliver on historic promises at the exact same time they are asking you to invest further into their promises - unspecified promises this time so theoretically easier to deliver, but nevertheless, this is 'buying a pig in a bag' (or should I say renting a pig in a bag?) from a company with a poor track record. a ludicrously expensive pig at that. now THAT'S naive.

in the version 2 announcement they simultaneously confirm that (a) they are failing to deliver key promises for version 2 (b) asking you to pay 160 euro once a year - after initially paying almost 400 - for more promises, unspecified this time (which I suppose they think gives them more wiggle room by not specifying what they are promising).

and I mean, this doesn't even acknowledge the fact youre being asked that 160 per year to pay for bug fixes and stability updates AND EMAIL SUPPORT (dear god!) which is the touch of death in itself.

honestly, if this kind of scheme is what BitWig have to do to make things work, financially, well, this is the death knell for BitWig. they're done. we will never see a version 3 under this kind of insane scheme. i hope they face reality soon, and figure out the finances in a more rational way - if that's even possible.


also, coming up with a scheme like this - particularly in relation to the implications on bug fixes and stability updates - puts a big onus on them, imo, to make doubly sure that every new customer explicitly confirms that they fully understand what they're essentially signing up for when they buy BitWig. otherwise it is, imo, tantamount to willfull deception.

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

they promised modulare but removed from their site but wellcome here

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

It was on the web site since launch...until very recently- 'coming in V2 open modular environment and network etc' with pictures and a full description of the features.

The new wording on the web site says something like (the new modulators) are 'one step closer to the modular environment'.

Personally I don't have an issue with them not making these features in V2 and needing a cash injection to keep going (we have had a lot of free updates in V1), its just the way they have gone about everything that seems strange....just removing things from the web site and hoping no one would notice!

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

No. You're making that up.

It stated forthcoming features, but not when they would be available.

Last I checked they made no promises for what would be in version 2.

It was on the web site since launch...until very recently- 'coming in V2 open modular environment and network etc' with pictures and a full description of the features.

The new wording on the web site says something like (the new modulators) are 'one step closer to the modular environment'.

Personally I don't have an issue with them not making these features in V2 and needing a cash injection to keep going (we have had a lot of free updates in V1), its just the way they have gone about everything that seems strange....just removing things from the web site and hoping no one would notice!

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

No. You're making that up.

It stated forthcoming features, but not when they would be available.

No, he's not
https://web.archive.org/web/20150526191 ... wig-studio

INTEGRATED MODULAR SYSTEM
All 54 devices found in Bitwig Studio were designed using a modular device creation environment which is integrated in the application. Unlike other software, this feature is at the heart of the code running Bitwig Studio. In the next major release, anyone with Bitwig Studio will have access to the integrated Modular System, enabling the modification of existing devices, or the creation and design of entirely new ones.

I would think anyone would agree that a v2 would be the next major release. That was on their site in the summer of 2015

^^^ time for the panda to eat crow.

Well clearly it isn't a major version since it's not included.

Legalese aside, It's naive to expect such a comprehensive feature to be ready at version 2.

Well clearly it isn't a major version since it's not included.

Legalese aside, It's naive to expect such a comprehensive feature to be ready at version 2.

Utterly rediculous. v1 to V2 is obviously a major paid update and modular (and networking) was promised almost 2 years ago when the product was launched, in fact this promise was only removed from the web site a few months ago after being there for years.

It's not legalise, you were just incorrect when you said I was wrong, better to just move along....

Well, tough shit. The modular environment is not ready, clearly. Would you rather they release it in a half-baked state? (*cough* Max4Live *cough)

Well, tough shit. The modular environment is not ready, clearly. Would you rather they release it in a half-baked state? (*cough* Max4Live *cough)

A minute ago you were saying it wasn't even promised, now you say 'tough shit' that it wasn't delivered as promised? Tough shit on who, their customer? Why not just wait until it was ready before making the release we all expected (they had 3 years) and do a paid for .5 release now.