KVR Audio

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:05 am

About the modular feature, this is what Bitwig website says

"Modularity will continue to play a key role in our upcoming releases, both for users and under-the-hood. Additional devices are always under development, including some which will bring modular concepts more directly to the user. And a little bit down the road, our internal development tool for programming Bitwig Devices will be available to anyone who wants to go down that road. (You’ve probably seen some older screenshots of that environment; new paint and programming languages are coming.) "

https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/behind-the ... arity.html

Rappo Clappo · Post by **Rappo Clappo** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:08 am

@Daags

They got a point though.. the half-baked state

BitWig=HalfToupet

Rappo Clappo · Post by **Rappo Clappo** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:11 am

sl1914 wrote:About the modular feature, this is what Bitwig website says

"Modularity will continue to play a key role in our upcoming releases, both for users and under-the-hood. Additional devices are always under development, including some which will bring modular concepts more directly to the user. And a little bit down the road, our internal development tool for programming Bitwig Devices will be available to anyone who wants to go down that road. (You’ve probably seen some older screenshots of that environment; new paint and programming languages are coming.) "

https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/behind-the ... arity.html

Who says A must say B.... tell me... WHAT did they actually state for 5 years long? About the modular environment that is, well... that is not.

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:18 am

Rappo Clappo wrote: Who says A must say B.... tell me... WHAT did they actually state for 5 years long? About the modular environment that is, well... that is not.

If you read the whole text from the link I posted they are telling that the whole modulation system was changed in version 2 to make the modular system possible. It's the first step to this direction and IMO gives Bitwig instruments and effects a more modular functionality. It is impossible to know when the missing parts will be available. During 2017 (and thus part of version 2) or later.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:20 am

LawrenceF wrote:Frankly, if I were a user I'd give them a pass on the modular stuff, as long as it shows up in the v2 cycle.

We maybe have to think like adults and remember that not everything we (ourselves) plan to do always happens on schedule. That would be the question I would ask them.... "Is the modular stuff still happening in the V2 cycle?"

And maybe stop taking every comment like it's a literal promise from a girlfriend, and more just a plan that got delayed?

in this scheme of theirs, major version numbers hardly matter... it's time based now. They could be on version 2.xxxxx for the next twenty years if they wanted .... because everyone's paying by the year, not the version. Have you been following this topic closely ? Don't you get what the crux of the issue is ? it's not JUST that features weren't delivered as promised, when promised. It's that they werent delivered AND how that figures with this new ass-reaming scheme of theirs.

give them a pass if you like, but this is classic bait & switch. they promised something very significant to lure people in to their platform, and then both failed to deliver on those significant and long held & promoted promises while at the same time ramped up the cost and switched to some arbitrary time scheme which effectively means you pay 160 a year for bug fixes, stability, and email support with the sweetener being unspecified features. this is crazy shit and I for one will have no issue eating crow if they both [1] dont change their stance on this insane scheme [2] and succeed. because as far as I'm concerned, both of those things can't happen. and if they want to succeed their best hope is to abandon this bullshit idea of theirs.

and btw ... the flippant way you refer to this as a 'comment' that shouldn't be taken as a 'literal promise' is pretty telling of how badly you don't really get it. This wasn't a 'comment' this was a unique selling point, heavily and boldly advertised on their commercial website for years. That is advertisement. They are a business. Your weird girlfriend analogy doesn't apply here ...

imo. ymmv. god bless america.

Rappo Clappo · Post by **Rappo Clappo** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:21 am

sl1914 wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote: Who says A must say B.... tell me... WHAT did they actually state for 5 years long? About the modular environment that is, well... that is not.
If you read the whole text from the link I posted they are telling that the whole modulation system was changed in version 2 to make the modular system possible. It's the first step to this direction and IMO gives Bitwig instruments and effects a more modular functionality. It is impossible to know when the missing parts will be available. During 2017 (and thus part of version 2) or later.

I asked you a question. Why even bother? You don't know. The text was removed 2 months ago. Wait.... can YOU actually read???????

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:26 am

easy people.......no need to shout

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:29 am

Rappo Clappo wrote: I asked you a question. Why even bother? You don't know. The text was removed 2 months ago. Wait.... can YOU actually read???????

You did not include link to any specific text so that I could have checked what you mean: something in their website or one of their comments here in KVR forum. So I assumed you meant their initial goal that BWS version 2 would be modular. And to this I answered: the modular system will be partly in v2. Whether they can ship it 100% this year remains to be seen.

Rappo Clappo · Post by **Rappo Clappo** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:33 am

"You did not include link to any specific text.."

Because I don't have to *prove* myself; every first week user knows it is true. Would you say I am lying?

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:39 am

like, hey u guys, don't like ... take it literally and stuff ... think of it ... like ... more as like ... something your, like, girlfriend might promise, n stuff. and just like, hand over the money, cos like, that would be awesome. cos like, croissants in berlin, like, they're not cheap n stuff, and like... we like croissants and stuff... and like, that would be super kool of you to just like, keep sending us that money n stuff and we can like totally exchange emails while you're like, sending the money n stuff. kthxbai.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:41 am

sl1914 wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote: Who says A must say B.... tell me... WHAT did they actually state for 5 years long? About the modular environment that is, well... that is not.
If you read the whole text from the link I posted they are telling that the whole modulation system was changed in version 2 to make the modular system possible. It's the first step to this direction and IMO gives Bitwig instruments and effects a more modular functionality. It is impossible to know when the missing parts will be available. During 2017 (and thus part of version 2) or later.

For someone sitting on the fence looking in, this doesn't look that good. I don't recall the detailed words exactly, however, I clearly remember the essence of what was promised when Bitwig 1 came out. In essence they said "Look at all of our cool devices, we create those with our modular system because, under the hood, Bitwig is modular. We will be including the ability for you to do the same in Version 2."

I'm certain that I even commented about it in one of the threads here. If you search for bitwig and ghettosynth, you will probably find it because that's one of the few comments that I've made about bitwig.

From my point of view, this IS a broken promise, but not one that concerns me very much. The reason is that their devices seem pretty limited for how many years of development? In other words, while it seemed like they might have something that could compete with MFL, I'm not so sure that they actually do. I don't know what the limitations are for them to release it, but, given the nature of what THEY have developed with it, I'm not as impressed as I was when they came out with it.

MFL is clunky and a resource hog, but shit gets done with it. IMNSHO, they would have been much better off to focus on the modular aspect and get it out to the community so that the community could help them make their next version a stronger release. It won't be the thing that everyone will want to use, but it would allow other people to build devices.

So they have modulators, wheeee, I'm sure that they're sexier than MFL modulators, or MUX modulators, but that's not enough for me to get on board and the fact that it's not out, years later, with the version that they said that it would be included with, leaves me fairly unimpressed with their progress.

YMMV.

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:45 am

Rappo Clappo wrote: Because I don't have to *prove* myself; every first week user knows it is true. Would you say I am lying?

You don't have to prove it, but if you are talking about something that a company has told their users several years ago it is very unlikely that people remember exactly what this text was.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:52 am

sl1914 wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote: Because I don't have to *prove* myself; every first week user knows it is true. Would you say I am lying?
You don't have to prove it, but if you are talking about something that a company has told their users several years ago it is very unlikely that people remember exactly what this text was.

I guess you haven't been following the thread, or even the recent pages. It's been covered and links have been provided to archived pages.

here's a screenshot:

sl1914 · Post by **sl1914** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:52 am

ghettosynth wrote: So they have modulators, wheeee, I'm sure that they're sexier than MFL modulators, or MUX modulators, but that's not enough for me to get on board and the fact that it's not out, years later, with the version that they said that it would be included with, leaves me fairly unimpressed with their progress.

They did list many other features as well that would be in v2, but are not. I was wondering if they could release pretty much every needed feature in just 2 releases. Looks like they won't be doing it that way.
Still for me the bigger problem is the price they are asking for 12 month support. 5 years of upgrades would cost about 800 according to their current plan.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:52 am

ghettosynth wrote:
sl1914 wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote: Who says A must say B.... tell me... WHAT did they actually state for 5 years long? About the modular environment that is, well... that is not.
If you read the whole text from the link I posted they are telling that the whole modulation system was changed in version 2 to make the modular system possible. It's the first step to this direction and IMO gives Bitwig instruments and effects a more modular functionality. It is impossible to know when the missing parts will be available. During 2017 (and thus part of version 2) or later.
For someone sitting on the fence looking in, this doesn't look that good. I don't recall the detailed words exactly, however, I clearly remember the essence of what was promised when Bitwig 1 came out. In essence they said "Look at all of our cool devices, we create those with our modular system because, under the hood, Bitwig is modular. We will be including the ability for you to do the same in Version 2."

I'm certain that I even commented about it in one of the threads here. If you search for bitwig and ghettosynth, you will probably find it because that's one of the few comments that I've made about bitwig.

From my point of view, this IS a broken promise, but not one that concerns me very much. The reason is that their devices seem pretty limited for how many years of development? In other words, while it seemed like they might have something that could compete with MFL, I'm not so sure that they actually do. I don't know what the limitations are for them to release it, but, given the nature of what THEY have developed with it, I'm not as impressed as I was when they came out with it.

MFL is clunky and a resource hog, but shit gets done with it. IMNSHO, they would have been much better off to focus on the modular aspect and get it out to the community so that the community could help them make their next version a stronger release. It won't be the thing that everyone will want to use, but it would allow other people to build devices.

So they have modulators, wheeee, I'm sure that they're sexier than MFL modulators, or MUX modulators, but that's not enough for me to get on board and the fact that it's not out, years later, with the version that they said that it would be included with, leaves me fairly unimpressed with their progress.

YMMV.

yep.

bitwig 2 is here