bitwig 2 is here

[Rappo Clappo]

@Daags

Hey... you stole my show!

[ghettosynth]

So for those wondering where some of us got the idea that Bitwig 2.0, precisely, would contain the modular system. Please enjoy this video evidence from 2013. The exact words you are looking for appear between about 2:15 and 2:20 in the video.

[Rappo Clappo]

I collected almost all the documentation. If they were just like 'we're not gonna make it' etc, I would have been fine with that. If they had stated 'we ran in a little trouble' it's ok by me.
However, usually the way they've been behaving is called: hideous. Well... one can't hide forever. Jussayin'. No worries.

[Daags]

the failure to deliver on long-held, heavily promoted, key promises that were peddled at trade shows and plastered on their main commercial website is one thing. the recent white washing of those promises in to non-existence is another. but the proposed yearly ass-reaming is what ties this concentrated dung heap of a situation together.

[ghettosynth]

So they have modulators, wheeee, I'm sure that they're sexier than MFL modulators, or MUX modulators, but that's not enough for me to get on board and the fact that it's not out, years later, with the version that they said that it would be included with, leaves me fairly unimpressed with their progress.

They did list many other features as well that would be in v2, but are not. I was wondering if they could release pretty much every needed feature in just 2 releases. Looks like they won't be doing it that way.
Still for me the bigger problem is the price they are asking for 12 month support. 5 years of upgrades would cost about 800 according to their current plan.

Sure, if you're a user, other things are probably more important because you've obviously bought in without that feature. For me, it was the big promise and the only thing that would have made Bitwig compelling. However, we can't ignore the progress along the way. There should be amazing built in devices for Bitwig that aren't available as VSTs because that modular environment, combined with the consistent and pre-existing U/I elements, would have made development rapid. It basically should be like doing Reaktor instruments using only the built in controls, once you get some skill with it, it goes really really fast. The fact that there really isn't, makes me wonder how stable and usable that environment is.

Here's the thread where I commented on it and made that determination, and also where the above video is posted. Basically I said then that will wait until 2.0 comes out to see if Bitwig is worth me jumping ship, and look it's here, and no modular editor. So, for the moment, I'm uninterested no matter what other features they've brought to the table.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... hettosynth

[Daags]

So for those wondering where some of us got the idea that Bitwig 2.0, precisely, would contain the modular system. Please enjoy this video evidence from 2013. The exact words you are looking for appear between about 2:15 and 2:20 in the video.

yep, I'm sure there is plenty more evidence out there. I don't know why apologists even dispute that this promise was made or that it was made explicitly. There's a difference between not caring about something, and denying it even existed.

[db3]

Perhaps the bean counters are also responsible for the failure to release the open modular system....a carrot for when the next sub date passes.

[popskull]

I think I'll ask for a refund. I bought into V1 knowing that updates would be free, modular would be available in V2 and the V1 to V2 upgrade price would be reasonable not 3/4 of the V1 price.

[Daags]

Perhaps the bean counters are also responsible for the failure to release the open modular system....a carrot for when the next sub date passes.

and/or the realisation that their ability to justify their ass-reaming quasi-subscription plan with piecemeal feature updates may be greatly diminished by the fact that the userbase can freely create & share their own effectively native devices.

like, wait a minute, how am I supposed to pay for my seafront condo that way ?

[Daags]

I think I'll ask for a refund. I bought into V1 knowing that updates would be free, modular would be available in V2 and the V1 to V2 upgrade price would be reasonable not 3/4 of the V1 price.

and you would be absolutely entitled to that refund.

[LawrenceF]

Yes, It appears they had every intention of delivering it at 2.0, but obviously something happened along the way and that didn't happen.

We can take that one of two ways...

1. They're just liars, were lying about it all along. Or...
2. They encounted issues that delayed it.

I still don't personally see it as a literal "promise". I see it as a goal they beleived they could reach, which in hindsight, granted, may have been a wee bit too ambitious.

Again guys, those people are human like us and they sometimes guess wrong, even when evaluting their own abilities. The question is why some seem to be so quick to lable them liars? I tend to beleive that they actually wanted it in 2.0 as much as users (or more?) but couldn't quite get it done yet? Especially considering that if they'd made that happen for 2.0 it would be more money in their own pockets?

Software development is not magic. Sometimes you encounter obstacles you didn't consider or plan for. Could they have handled the expectations better? Sure.

Honestly, will the world as we know it end if it doesn't show up until 2,4?

[popskull]

Yes, It appears they had every intention of delivering it at 2.0, but obviously something happened along the way and that didn't happen.

We can take that one of two ways...

1. They're just liars, were lying about it all along. Or...
2. They encounted issues that delayed it.

I still don't personally see it as a literal "promise". I see it as a goal, which in hindsight, granted, may have been a wee bit too ambitious.

Again guys, those people are human like us and they sometimes guess wrong, even when evaluting their own abilities. The question is why some seem to be so quick to lable them liars? I tend to beleive that they actually wanted it in 2.0 as much as users (or more?) but couldn't quite get it done yet? Especially considering that if they'd made that happen for 2.0 it would be more money in their own pockets?

Software development is not magic. Sometimes you encounter obstacles you didn't consider or plan for. Could they have handled the expectations better? Sure.

Then don't double shaft us with a license fee and an upgrade to a half version that's 3/4 the V1 price.

[LawrenceF]

They're not. It's optional. You can simply wait until the other thing shows up to buy it, unless the GAS is too strong for that to happen.

To be clear, if this turns into a pattern I will join the chorus saying they're full of it. Given that this is their first major update ever, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt out of ordinary civility. Mmv of course.

[popskull]

They're not. It's optional. You can simply wait until the other thing shows up to buy it, unless the GAS is too strong for that to happen.

Give them more money . That won't fix it. You will not see any significant updates in the 12 months.

The issue here is they hyped the product on promises , people bought in, and the failed / lied on 3 fronts - free updates between versions , modular environment ( the only differentiating daw feature ) and a reasonable price update path . They have been very slow developing. You won't see any significant updates in the next 12 months . In the interim they have killed customer loyalty , and the resell value of bitwig ( noting they could just say no transfers at a drop of a hat because promises and values are nothing anymore to bitwig )

[Daags]

Given that this is their first major update ever, I'm them the benefit of the doubt.

you still don't get it. because what they are proposing is that this is their only 'major update' ever. the whole 'selling point' of the ass-reaming quasi-subscription pricing scheme is that features will roll out as & when they are ready. NOTHING gets held back for a 'major update'. This is the whole idea that's supposed to lure you in to paying 160 euro a year for bug fixes & stability updates, and the privilege of having your emails handled when you contact them about bugs.