bitwig 2 is here

[Daags]

Then don't double shaft us with a license fee and an upgrade to a half version that's 3/4 the V1 price.

They're not. It's optional. You can simply wait until the other thing shows up to buy it, unless the GAS is too strong for that to happen.

Give them more money . That won't fix it. You will not see any significant updates in the 12 months.

The issue here is they hyped the product on promises , people bought in, and the failed / lied on 3 fronts - free updates between versions , modular environment ( the only differentiating daw feature ) and a reasonable price update path . They have been very slow developing. You won't see any significant updates in the next 12 months . In the interim they have killed customer loyalty , and the resell value of bitwig ( noting they could just say no transfers at a drop of a hat because promises and values are nothing anymore to bitwig )

yep.

[popskull]

Grants from government probably ran out and now they want to screw customers. I can live with not delivering on V2 features in time but just call it V1.5 and don't screw over customers with BS update fees and exorbitant upgrade fees. Treat your customers with respect, be transparent , or just pack it in

[LawrenceF]

Easy decision then, don't buy it now or again later.

Problem solved?

[popskull]

Easy decision then, don't buy it now or again later.

Problem solved?

Yes agree with a refund as they lied on 3 fronts

[gentleclockdivider]

So they have modulators, wheeee, I'm sure that they're sexier than MFL modulators, or MUX modulators, but that's not enough for me to get on board and the fact that it's not out, years later, with the version that they said that it would be included with, leaves me fairly unimpressed with their progress.

They did list many other features as well that would be in v2, but are not. I was wondering if they could release pretty much every needed feature in just 2 releases. Looks like they won't be doing it that way.
Still for me the bigger problem is the price they are asking for 12 month support. 5 years of upgrades would cost about 800 according to their current plan.

There should be amazing built in devices for Bitwig that aren't available as VSTs because that modular environment, combined with the consistent and pre-existing U/I elements, would have made development rapid. It basically should be like doing Reaktor instruments using only the built in controls, once you get some skill with it, it goes really really fast. The fact that there really isn't, makes me wonder how stable and usable that environment is.



http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... hettosynth

Exactly , building a modular environment that competes with reaktor / max msp is a huge task .
That said , I find most audio devices in bitwig verry generic sounding ...nothing that I couldn't build in reaktor myself ....( except for their crossrouting modulation framework )
The fm synth is joke , so are the drumsynths ,
There are audio rate modulation possibiliities ( envelope follower 2nd mode )which is a good thing
It could also be that they don't open up their system to the user , because then they can't sell future products based on the system .
It's clear they focus on modulators etc , I feel really sorry for all of you that were early adopters and got treated this way .

Utterly shameless

[liquidsound]

Giving out the modular engine?
Impossible. That would open the can of worms, or Bugs in BWS case.
They would not be able to handle such support.
Can you imagine a team that can't fix basic bugs managing a modular system with endless unpredictable situations and interactions with an immature system?
No way....
It's smart they took it off the timeline table.

[incubus]

"There is something familiar about this thread....."

[liquidsound]

Common sense.

[ghettosynth]

Giving out the modular engine?
Impossible. That would open the can of worms, or Bugs in BWS case.
They would not be able to handle such support.
Can you imagine a team that can't fix basic bugs managing a modular system with endless unpredictable situations and interactions with an immature system?
No way....
It's smart they took it off the timeline table.

Depends on what you mean by smart. It's perhaps good management to not deliver something that you don't have the resources to handle, but, it must be called out as bad management to not deliver the features that you promised to deliver. If they can't handle bugs then there is something how they manage that. If they can't, or won't, hire the right people, then there are issues with management there as well. If they over-promised features that they didn't have the capability to develop, that's bad management as well.

I really like the late Steve Jobs perspective on this. When asked about the character of the role of vice president within Apple, he replied ( paraphrasing), that below that level, reasons for failure matter. If the janitor couldn't sweep your office because the locks were changed and he wasn't given a new key, then that's a valid reason for failure. At the VP level, there are no reasons, that's the job, you either execute or you do not. Bitwig promised to execute and many people bought into it based on those promises. Then they failed to execute, that's bad management.

That said, this is exactly why I didn't buy into Bitwig round one. There was a whole lot of talk and a bungled initial release. Their ability did not inspire me then. I gave them until round two to pick up the pace and learn. I don't think that they succeeded at that. You may think differently.

[liquidsound]

I agree with you but, regardless of the reason not to deliver the modularity aspect, they had no choice but to remove a potential failure to keep a promise based perhaps on your speculations.

[ghettosynth]

I agree with you but, regardless of the reason not to deliver the modularity aspect, they had no choice but to remove a potential failure to keep a promise based perhaps on your speculations.

No doubt they had no choice, now. Their choice earlier was to learn from their mistakes and manage their company better. I'm trying to be as precise as I can be here. I have no need to spin this in any particular way. I think that just like the initial release, this release shows that they haven't figured out how to manage software development.

It's hardly smart, rather it's essentially obvious, to not deliver something that isn't ready to be delivered. It just drives the question "why isn't it ready to be delivered?" Good management is all about not having to answer that question.

[rod_zero]

What really pisses me off is that their new system is based n making promises.

Why is this upgrade plan better than our previous model?
We will be able to release key features as they are ready - instead of holding them back for major releases. This enables us to offer you new feature and content updates more regularly.

This clearly create expectations that new features will come more regularly, that you will get something new within your 12 months upgrade plan.

Instead of presenting the features upfront when they are ready and ask for the money then ,they want us to give them money on their promise. They are building hope and expectations to get money.

[popskull]

What really pisses me off is that their new system is based n making promises.

Why is this upgrade plan better than our previous model?
We will be able to release key features as they are ready - instead of holding them back for major releases. This enables us to offer you new feature and content updates more regularly.

This clearly create expectations that new features will come more regularly, that you will get something new within your 12 months upgrade plan.

Instead of presenting the features upfront when they are ready and ask for the money then ,they want us to give them money on their promise. They are building hope and expectations to get money.

They had 3 years to get V2 out . This new pricing model will have absolutely no benefit to getting things out faster . No reason they couldn't do that now in V1 and attract more buyers in . V2 is the proof. It's a scam.

[incubus]

I find it interesting that this is creating that much stir.

We knew all along that they are slow to develop.

Why is this such an angry thing? Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but I don't see it as this life-changing experience that is causing rage.

Anyways, love incubus.

[popskull]

I find it interesting that this is creating that much stir.

We knew all along that they are slow to develop.

Why is this such an angry thing? Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but I don't see it as this life-changing experience that is causing rage.

Anyways, love incubus.

The reason is they lied to customers and treated them like dirt:

V1 came out promising V2 modular environment . In fact they showed screen shots videos it was almost ready . V1 was about 350 Australian .

They promised updates free with the license and a reasonable upgrade path not 3/4 of the cost of V1. V2 is about 230 Australian .

They even gave a badge to early adopters saying thanks for supporting the development and that we have plans for giving back for your loyalty.

Lies Lies Lies.

Agree development has been really really slow. So the 1 year paid updates only license is an absolute insult.