bitwig 2 is here

[Lejurai]

They had 3 years to get V2 out . This new pricing model will have absolutely no benefit to getting things out faster . No reason they couldn't do that now in V1 and attract more buyers in . V2 is the proof. It's a scam.

Well, dom said that they can release new stuff immediately, instead of waiting for new big version. Which I understand like that they had all that stuff done (like phaser and spectrum analyzers ) but they just didn't release it because they wanted v2 to have some content that they could justify the upgrade price.

So the model they announced would make them release stuff immediately, instead of keeping the features to a major upgrade release.

At least they said it'd be like that. Not sure if I believe them anymore.

[incubus]

But the thing is, this isn't even a typical KVR anger thread at this point in time.

Not sure what to say. I've followed since forever. We've had all the cat pics, all the finger pointing and I even bought it once and sold it (just bought it again, not for version 2)

Not saying people shouldn't be upset. I get it more than the couple of nay-sayers, but still it's kinda odd that it's SO many people.

[elxsound]

But the thing is, this isn't even a typical KVR anger thread at this point in time.

Not sure what to say. I've followed since forever. We've had all the cat pics, all the finger pointing and I even bought it once and sold it (just bought it again, not for version 2)

Not saying people shouldn't be upset. I get it more than the couple of nay-sayers, but still it's kinda odd that it's SO many people.

I think many people looked at Bitwig as being more than just another company. I personally never saw them present themselves as anything different but that doesn't stop people from rooting for the newcomer/underdog.

Anyway... having been down this same route with ProTools I think this is an appropriate reaction considering the cost/benefit ratio of Bitwig.

Many people are willing to entertain the perpetual license/subscription for support & updates if the price were lowered to be more competitive.

Considering the release will be in February it means there's still hope for a more fair offer.

If they were to change the cost of a 12 month subscription to $99, it would put Bitwig on par with ProTools.

By not penalizing users for having a lapsed subscription and still charging only $99 per 12 months, Bitwig would be a better deal than ProTools.

For ProTools to be a more affordable model (as it is currently) is just wrong.

[incubus]

True, I'm just surprised that it's so much by so many.

I didn't get back into it hoping for version 2.

Anyways, my sig says it all. I've hoped and hoped for the DAW market to get better, unfortunately, it's a revolving door of disappointment overall.

1.3.15 does seem to be exceptionally stable, so if it's the last version I use, I think it will be good enough for what I do.

[incubus]

BTW, I "scanned" the thread before I got the really low-priced version in the market place and I cannot reproduce many of the bugs.

That forum is a MESS! Needs subdivisions and such, but considering I'm the all-time king of finding issues, what does that mean?

Even the CPU is not really an issue since I went to win10 (previously used with win7 where CPU use was, awful)

[maschinelf]

The few comments above say it all really. I think that yes the perception was that they're a bit different from the other companies. However, the operative word here is company, so there is no doubt that this was always a business enterprise established for the purpose of making a profit. The difference here, or atleast what it seemed to me, was that this was being run by people that themselves were musicians, or understood musicians' needs better than the average developer, or were motivated by a desire to do things differently than other daw developers. Maybe it is just what we wanted to see. There was an interview by Dom Kane which also had some interesting points, and again seemed to suggest the same line of thought, but again it was likely just what I wanted to see.

At $100 I think it will find more takers, though my hope is that ultimately they will drop the subscription plan altogether. I don't really know of any situation where subscription plans have met with much popular support. Avid's switch to a subscription based plan was heavily criticised, although there were other reasons for that too, like their completely unreasonable condition that it can only be renewed upon expiry, and not at anytime. Rental plans like Serum's rent-to-own and Slate have been more popular, and it's easy to see why.

I have to say that it's a ballsy (though imho stupid) move from Bitwig, and it will be interesting to see if they adjust it or are able to come up with something that for example balances subscription with rental, to make it more reasonable and logical, rather than something that will just be seen as a money grab tactic.

With all that said, I haven't yet updated to 1.3.15 but am glad to read that it seems very stable. I too will stick to it for a long time and see how this drama unfolds.

[.jon]

Here's what would have worked:

Release this update as free update, BWS 1.5, and accompany that with a price drop which lasts until BWS 2.0, which you have planned for release along with a new license model in December 2017. 89e, not 159e.

pros:

- no angry customers
- no broken promises
- new customers
- proved that you can deliver cool things in the intermediate updates

cons:

- you don't go bankrupt
- your customers will love you even though you wanted them to hate you
- no champagne at Ableton HQ
- you still need to get to work every day

[fedexnman]

I wonder what Ableton and Company are thinking right now ?

[Lejurai]

I wonder what Ableton and Company are thinking right now ?

At Ableton they rub their hands together and laugh hysterically.

[Daags]

I wonder what Ableton and Company are thinking right now ?

At Ableton they rub their hands together and laugh hysterically.

Ableton are too busy managing their enormous success to engage in schadenfreude.

I do wonder what they're thinking at Bitwig though ... they all conspired to leave key positions at Ableton together, to go ahead and make an Ableton Live clone (and I've often seen it referred to as a 'rip-off') to directly compete with Live, a software they had intimate knowledge of - it's strengths & weaknesses.

If Bitwig as a company fails, or at least fails to finance these guys lifestyles the way they were hoping to the point they have to call it quits, what are they going to do ? I can't imagine they'll ever be hired to fill positions at the same level again, owing to their record for industrial treachery. and look at Claes Johanson's record with Vember Audio on top of that .... from the outside it looks like the dude just abandons things. Abandons Vember Audio, abandons Ableton, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he abandons Bitwig too, though who knows where he would go from there considering it might be hard to get a job in the industry after jacking his previous employer's concept. Don't get me wrong ... people often migrate from job to job or position to position. but there's a distinction to be made between migration, and abandonment.

the massive price hike, and the ass-reaming proposal for a new subscription model (for bugfixes! for stability updates! for frigging email support!) does not indicate to me that they are in a strong financial position. ymmv on that, but to me it gives me the impression of an entity that is drowning and clutching. and clutching at something this malignant, in the hopes that it pays off, well .... good luck with that.

I stand by my earlier assertions that they can't both [1] stick to this scheme and [2] succeed.
And who knows what their books look like, maybe their back is against the wall, but they need to try something else because this will assuredly lead them down a path of abject failure. They have until February I guess to start making some more promises to try and lube people up for the ass-reaming. If they're determined to hang on to the quasi-subscription, they need to be explicit about tying it in to features and guaranteeing bug fixes, stability updates and email support will keep coming to you as a customer no matter what version you're left with when your 'subscription' times out. How they do that is up to them, but off the top of my head I'd say they need to adopt something more like the ReNoise model if this is the path they are determined to go down.

imo, ymmv, god bless america.

[TheKid]

I'm glad I didn't jump on the Bitwig bandwaggon. V2 isn't even out and people are raging like hell (very understandable from my point of view). What a clusterfuck.

[Chapelle]

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[mesfigas]

I'm sure that the silent majority couldn't be any happier about this new license model.

very cool picture

[cowby]

Sorry may be a little bit OT, but I pretty much respect Bitwig version 1 (in terms of the features and pricing). However, I found that so many ppl shouting for the new pricing model. Sad to see....

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/ ... tion-more/

[Daags]

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/ ... tion-more/

that makes two well known blogs I've seen so far, that have completely glossed over the new licensing scheme. though synthopia is worse, since they actually talked about the pricing... but this is how they covered it:

Pricing and Availability

Bitwig Studio 2 will be available February 28th, 2017.

Bitwig Studio 2 Upgrade from Bitwig Studio 1: 159 EUR / 169 USD (MAP)
Bitwig Studio 2: 379 EUR / 399 USD (MAP)
Grace period for customers, that purchased Bitwig Studio 1 on, or after, December 10th, 2016. They will get the Bitwig Studio 2 upgrade for free.

that is tantamount to lying imo ... how do you, as an honest human being, publish that while completely omitting the new licensing scheme ? how do you, as an honest human being, not even update your article (assuming the first ommission was an 'honest mistake) when this fact has caused considerable controversy everywhere the update is being discussed - including the comments section of the very article you are publishing ? I guess it boils down to advertising revenue.