bitwig 2 is here

[ere2learn]

wait for it....

[memyselfandus]

[Daags]

http://imgur.com/a/eking

[ras.s]

more often than not, these fanboys/sycophants/apologists hinder progress. the irony is the common thing they say is something along the lines of 'you've made your point, now move on' ... when it is they who should be following that advice. nothing gets improved when the only people talking are those happy to live with, and keep paying for, the problems.

And you count your posts as legitimate criticism? For instance you insisting on using the phrase "ass-reaming", that is, evoking in your fellow forumites the mental picture of forceful anal penetration using some sort of a drill in order to make people's assholes larger -- that's what you'd call criticism? It's more like you wanting to plant in our heads that what was announced a few days ago compares to something like that, while for any sane person, it's not comparable. It's not criticism, it's you being a frothing-at-the-mouth Internet warrior (which appears to be your usual mode of operation, now that you've told us you were among the hordes of people flaming Ableton).

As for nothing getting improved if the response is always positive, sure, you've got a point there. But with not being in any way constructive, or by continuously belittling others and the company in question, I seriously doubt it contributes to improvement on any front. There are probably countless examples of such behaviour in music-related software forums alone leading to either heavy handed moderation -- or to the complete withdrawal of the company in question from engaging with its community. I think there really is a risk of the latter happening once again, thanks to posters like yourself. I mean, I'm already spending too much time and energy making this post -- is responding to or even reading "criticism" like yours time well spent for a company?

There's a teeny-tiny chance that sometimes stating an opinion and then moving on really does go further than making dozens of vulgar posts in order to hammer in everyone's head what your opinion is.

[LawrenceF]

The world keeps spinning.

I bought a used car last week for $2k, kinda got taken a little because it turned out it needed a head gasket, so I had to pay another $800 to fix that so it would run without overheating. I was slightly pissed for about an hour but I'm over it already. I wrote a polite but fair negative review on the dealership and put it in my rear view.

Lesson learned, next time take a really, really, really long test drive to expose some things that maybe won't show up driving only a mile or two.

Life happens. The small things are rarely worth the trouble of having long term anger over. Especially not with software. Mmv of course.

[Daags]

Ras .. That's a lot of text (or 'hot air' to stick to the evocative theme) just to express a very subjective point of view regarding me and my choice of words.


Meanwhile, I think I'll reserve the majority of my keystrokes for the topic at hand. Got anything to say about that, by any chance ? No ? OK... time to take your own advice and move on now that you've expressed yourself.

[Daags]

The world keeps spinning.

I bought a used car last week for $2k, kinda got taken a little because it turned out it needed a head gasket, so I had to pay another $800 to fix that so it would run without overheating. I was slightly pissed for about an hour but I'm over it already. I wrote a polite but fair negative review on the dealership and put it in my rear view.

Lesson learned, next time take a really, really, really long test drive to expose some things that maybe won't show up driving only a mile or two.

Life happens. The small things are rarely worth the trouble of having long term anger over. Especially not with software. Mmv of course.

First girlfriend analogies ... and now the classic car analogy. We don't need analogies. We all understand very well what is being discussed here. Software, licenses, bugs, stability, fixes, upgrades, updates, advertisements and promises both explicit and implicit. And of course ... the hair brained schemes that are sometimes concocted to pay for all that. We all have experience in this realm. We don't need analogies about girlfriends. Or the cars in which you take them out on dates.

Cheers.

[ras.s]

Naahh, I'd rather talk more about the software in its own forum. Though in a 23 page thread like this, my comments weren't that much off the topic, at least not any more than you calling people fanboys/sycophants/apologists.

Though I'll still mention in case it might reassure someone of the company, and in the case it might have been lost in the noise, apparently there's still 1.3.16 in the pipeline to provide bug fixes for those who won't upgrade (at this time or ever).

[fmr]

Maybe I am just being naive and helplessly optimistic, but I think Bitwig will change opinion next week, and they will announce some changes in their policy. I don't believe all this roar will leave them indifferent.

[liquidsound]

Maybe.
It's need or greed.

[LawrenceF]

I might be less optimistic than you in that regard, but I tend to doubt if something that was most likely the result of long meetings and discussions (this change in direction) will do a sudden about face before it's even been tested in the market, before the thing even is for sale yet.

I'd have to believe that the honchos at Bitwig were expecting at least some level of initial negativity from it, that they didn't just start using the Internet yesterday, and really can't be that naive or clueless.

We'll see how it all plays out over the next 12-18 months I suppose.

[fedexnman]

We'll see how it all plays out over the next 12-18 months I suppose.

Exactly almost a let's test the waters approach .

[liquidsound]

Bad timing if Live 10 brings to the table a major, I mean Major, update in that time frame or less.

[Daags]

Bad timing if Live 10 brings to the table a major, I mean Major, update in that time frame or less.

it won't need to be 'major, as in Major' update ... announcing a Live 10 that simply delivers what might be reasonably expected, any time in the short term will hit Bitwig (assuming they maintain operation ass-ream re: pricing/upgrade policy) hard ... when Live 10 is announced, you can buy 9 and get 10 'free' when it's released ...a best of both worlds scenario since you can have multiple versions of Live installed, and use the latest stable 9 version while dipping your toes in to 10 which will, presumably, have kinks that need to be ironed out.

Live 9 has shown that Ableton were willing to wheel out feature rich 9.x updates, and there's no reason not to believe the same will happen for 10. And of course, once you buy Live ... the bugfixes, stability updates, etc etc are 'free' ... no 160 euro a year bullshit. and ya, you can email them with any issues you encounter with their software too (amazing that, in the context of Bitwig's plans, this has to be mentioned as a noteworthy privilege).


of course, Bitwig may yield to sense. Lets hope so.

[elxsound]

I might be less optimistic than you in that regard, but I tend to doubt if something that was most likely the result of long meetings and discussions (this change in direction) will do a sudden about face before it's even been tested in the market, before the thing even is for sale yet.

I'd have to believe that the honchos at Bitwig were expecting at least some level of initial negativity from it, that they didn't just start using the Internet yesterday, and really can't be that naive or clueless.

We'll see how it all plays out over the next 12-18 months I suppose.

I'm sure they decided what would be best for them, but they failed to take into consideration where this places them, in terms of competitive pricing.

It also seems they failed to research who else employees the same model (Avid) and only compared themselves to Adobe's model, when declaring it's not a subscription.

Yes lots of marketing missteps, but I doubt it was an error in deciding how early on they would announce this before the release... they gave themselves time to gauge user feedback. Now that they have it, I hope they adjust their price to be more competitive.

Reading around, I and others have suggested a $99 per year fee. I personally am not a fan of this model, but if this is the model they choose, they should at least make an effort to not cost more than ProTools.