What I learned from doing business is that you should always be pessimist. In two given scenarios, always choose the worse, and cut it by half. If you can live with that, fine. Anything else is a gain.Rappo Clappo wrote:Any way, 2.0 must be really something, because in business optimism cannot be confused with opportunism. That is one thing I learned from doing business.
Explaining would be redundant.Daags wrote:elxsound wrote:You want me to clarify the word "seems?"Daags wrote:There's a reason I employed the question mark. it's an invitation for clarification - something you don't seem too interested in doing. what a pity.
elxsound wrote: It also seems they failed to research who else employees the same model (Avid) and only compared themselves to Adobe's model, when declaring it's not a subscription.
That would be a pity if I had to so.
... I want you to clarify the sentence, obviously. but you're incapable, or don't want to because it makes you look stupid ? I don't know why else you'd be so reluctant to clarify (while simultaneously claiming you are being misunderstood/misrepresented).
At any rate, whoever compared their proposed plan to Adobe's creative cloud is retarded. At least that sentence should be clear enough. And getting the impression that 'they made that comparison themselves' would be just as bad, for all the reasons I outlined in my previous post on that topic. And as ghettosynth seems to have pointed out now too.
cheers.
Opportunism and optimism are two completely different terms; optimism is not based on hope, but on understanding. Opportunism created religion, optimism created science. That's the way I interprete it.fmr wrote:What I learned from doing business is that you should always be pessimist. In two given scenarios, always choose the worse, and cut it by half. If you can live with that, fine. Anything else is a gain.Rappo Clappo wrote:Any way, 2.0 must be really something, because in business optimism cannot be confused with opportunism. That is one thing I learned from doing business.
Being simply optimist is always a good recipe for failure. Hope is one thing, but you shouldn't confuse it with optimism.
You just compared them and made the same points others were making, stating the deficiencies of Bitwig's pricing model compared to ProTools, Ableton and Adobe.ghettosynth wrote:They can compare themselves to whomever they want, however, that comparison should be from all sides, not just the side that they want to sell to their customers. They aren't Adobe. They do not have an army of professional users who would give their left kidney to keep using photoshop, they aren't even close to becoming an industry standard for anything.
So, details of their pricing model aside, any comparison to Adobe or, frankly, even Avid, is misplaced. I'm not even sure that it's reasonable to compare them to Props.
I can't speak for everyone else, but, IMO, it's not really valid to compare their pricing model to other established companies who have survived many major update cycles. They are coming up on their first major update cycle and they are trying to move from an underdog pricing model to a premium pricing model without delivering on the features that they've made such a big deal about in the past.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but, I suspect that there are quite a few fence sitters who thought that Bitwig had a good idea but were waiting to see that idea realized in version 2.0. IMO, it's really bad that it's not even there, but, it's worse that they're bungling the release in multiple ways. What it speaks to is that they haven't learned from their initial bungled release and that they aren't likely to learn anytime soon.
They're not Adobe, or Ableton, if you want a comparison, they do seem a bit like dsprobotics (SynthMaker/FlowStone) except that their product doesn't have that cross market appeal.
Optimism is an attitude, understanding has no pre-defined emotional states attached to it. Optimism hasn't created anything.Rappo Clappo wrote:Opportunism and optimism are two completely different terms; optimism is not based on hope, but on understanding. Opportunism created religion, optimism created science. That's the way I interprete it.
I definitely find it ultra-expensive and not fair. Even 90€ I would think it's too much for a keep-up-tto dateexmatproton wrote:J-909; don't forget that with this new scheme they become one of the most expensive daw's and they don't deliver what they promised. No one is expecting a perfect daw (since that doesn't excist), but this is just wrong, imho.
No mate, I'm not judging anyone in particular, I just find some people going against Bitwig with all their wiill (maybe I'd do the same if I had faced all errors and time coping with it after being hopeful about the daw)Daags wrote:and you think this, I presume, based on your intimate knowledge of everyone's - who are critical of these latest Bitwig developments - posting history ?J-909 wrote:I think you are requiring Bitwig a lot more than you are to other maufacturers, which I don't understand.
Doubtful of course. but feel free to think what you like
At any rate, you obviously were not present when I - for example, along with hordes of others, flamed Ableton for the disaster that was Live 8. Which was a clusterfuck that Ableton were building towards with poor policy for several major versions beforehand. And what was the result of that near unanimous roasting ? A complete change of policy. Now they take their time and spend years between major versions. That's progress.
and if I, along with the hordes, had listened to all the apologists and fanboys, where would we be now ? Complaining about problems with Live 13, no doubt, and hundreds of dollars poorer too for the privilege.
more often than not, these fanboys/sycophants/apologists hinder progress. the irony is the common thing they say is something along the lines of 'you've made your point, now move on' ... when it is they who should be following that advice. nothing gets improved when the only people talking are those happy to live with, and keep paying for, the problems.
Well, I may have misunderstood what the complaint was about. I thought that people were saying that Bitwig thought of themselves like Adobe, which to me, is a bit rich. No matter, it's just a discussion.elxsound wrote: You just compared them and made the same points others were making, stating the deficiencies of Bitwig's pricing model compared to ProTools, Ableton and Adobe.
Plenty of fence sitters would have paid $299 to get Version 1 and a free upgrade to version 2 had they announced the release of the modular system and not also sent signals to the community that they were desperate for cash.incubus wrote:Plenty of people will pay the 169 to get it for a year.
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