bitwig 2 is here

[SLiC]

Yes, I suspect from the behaviour I have seem that the average age is under 16. Not that all under 16s are rude and petulant and immature, but that is certainly what we are seeing at KVR lately.

Actually, there have been at least 2 polls here in the time i'm registered, which showed that most are 40-60 years old. You're right though, this thread pretty much shows that the perceived age is rather 15-16. Least in this thread. There are others where you really can discuss with adults.

I am 50 so hit that demographic

It probably is a just a few people constantly ruining every thread, I am all for people posting an opinion, but if I want to just hear people make the same point over and over and over again I would go and talk to the wife....

[chk071]

This thread was pretty much bugged right from the beginning IMO. People are just constantly dismissing that his business is a pretty small one, and Bitwig, and any other company (with very few exceptions) in it are not multi billion dollar corporates which are just in it to soak the customer. It has been pointed out in this thread that Bitwig got 600.00 € beginning balance for their business. Jeez, that's 2 year salaries of a moderately earning manager of a bigger company (maybe 3). TBH, i find it ashaming how people trashed Bitwig for their new pricing model. Especially because everyone can vote with their wallet, and really set a sign, instead of trashing them on the net. But, that way you can't make politics. On a site which is supposed to be "driven by the industry".

[fedexnman]

There are good things and bad things about the INTERNET , Social Media , Forums .... Bottom line ... people can voice there opinions and trash whatever they want ... they also can put bogus info out there ..... And in the end , you can then go and fact check and decided your own opinion about politics , religion , and DAW updates/pricing/subscription plans ...Good day .

[chk071]

True that. It's just unfortunate that some are even considering their purchases with internet opinions in mind (which surely also can be constructive, but it can be a load of BS too).

[elxsound]

You guys are just piggybacking each other's posts.

Outsides of a very few gecko and cat pics, the majority of posts have been about vocalizing opinions. The majority of this thread has been on point. Highly critical yes, but on point.

So to accuse the majority of KVR as being childish based on so few post is not only lazy, immature and disrespectful but also hypocritical.

Definately NOT the majority. I'd say the minority. Most people on here are extremely helpful and great people.

But it's almost as if the people posting now are just looking for opportunities to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them.

[CTStump]

Age does not make any difference when comes to immaturity on the Internet. Kinda like some of the nicest people in the world are absolute tyrants behind the wheel filled with road rage. I guess some feel a certain amount of anonymity within their User handle.

That said and using the infamous phrase "don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch" here at KVR. That anology alone shows at least my age... I think.

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[elxsound]

Age does not make any difference when comes to immaturity on the Internet. Kinda like some of the nicest people in the world are absolute tyrants behind the wheel filled with road rage. I guess some feel a certain amount of anonymity within their User handle.

That said and using the infamous phrase "don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch" here at KVR. That anology alone shows at least my age... I think.

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Not at all... age has no bearing on maturity.

And I hope that phrase doesn't become dated if it hasn't already... but I woundnt know if it has or has not.

[Daags]

You guys are just piggybacking each other's posts.

Outsides of a very few gecko and cat pics, the majority of posts have been about vocalizing opinions. The majority of this thread has been on point. Highly critical yes, but on point.

So to accuse the majority of KVR as being childish based on so few post is not only lazy, immature and disrespectful but also hypocritical.

+1

You guys are just piggybacking each other's posts.

Outsides of a very few gecko and cat pics, the majority of posts have been about vocalizing opinions. The majority of this thread has been on point. Highly critical yes, but on point.

So to accuse the majority of KVR as being childish based on so few post is not only lazy, immature and disrespectful but also hypocritical.

Definately NOT the majority. I'd say the minority. Most people on here are extremely helpful and great people.

But it's almost as if the people posting now are just looking for opportunities to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them.

apologists & ad hominems go hand-in-hand.

[Daags]

funny thing about these people posting (spamming ? didn't I say how interesting this term is, lately) jpegs etc, it comes from a place of not liking what they hear/read (they're emotionally invested), but having nothing substantive to counter with. It's textbook trolling, an effort to derail something, but they get a free pass from the apologists because they're trolling from a shared POV.

as far as getting a free pass from the mods - they shouldn't allow this if they wouldn't allow it else where, or if they wouldn't allow it from 'critical' posters who would try to do the same in a mostly 'positive' or 'apologist' discussion or thread.

yet some guy makes some political analogy to explain something on-topic, and he gets a verbal warning.

[chk071]

as far as getting a free pass from the mods - they shouldn't allow this

Alomst ironic to hear that from a guy who derails and derailed many threads in the past.

[Daags]

it seems to be your personal hobby to accuse me of trolling. but there is absolutely no substance to it.

perhaps being at the losing end of a debate so many times has left you clutching at these kind of baseless accusations. sad.

[Kai Enaki]

... yet some guy makes some political analogy to explain something on-topic, and he gets a verbal warning.

A verbal warning by a moderator you say? I read it as someone cherry-picking my posts to avoid discussing the point made. But what do I know? This is my first KVR account after all.

[Daags]

... yet some guy makes some political analogy to explain something on-topic, and he gets a verbal warning.

A verbal warning by a moderator you say? I read it as someone cherry-picking my posts to avoid discussing the point made. But what do I know? This is my first KVR account after all.

I suspect you are referring to someone else. Anyway, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

just a reminder, I know it was last night but please leave the political talk out of it okay?

Hink is a moderator, that is a (friendly) verbal warning.


at any rate, it's not crazy for a mod to pre-emptively nip something political in the bud, especially since - as you appeared to allude - someone avoided the point you were making when replying to you and focused instead on the political aspect of your analogy. Despite your analogy being firmly anchored on the topic, it was a reasonable red flag for a mod that things could go completely off topic.

what is 'odd' though, is that the same mod isn't nearly so on the ball when it comes to blatant 'trolling'/'spamming' jpegs from those who have persistently struggled to effectively & intellectually challenge those whose POV they oppose. We've had what amounts to pages of this trolling tactic now, left completely unchecked - and that's not even counting ad hominems (but if ad hominems were banned they'd have nothing left to say, I guess). in that context, it's 'weird' to me that a political analogy that's anchored on-topic gets the pro-active moderation treatment.

consistency seems to be lacking, and usually in favour of a certain side of the discussion.

[EnGee]

But didn't Hink locked that long thread that people used to post images? I understood from his words that one thread about Bitwig is enough and we can post here! Sorry if I misunderstood.

I also thought that the images helps in bringing cheerful feelings and calming down little bit both camps!

Personally, I had no intention to re buy Bitwig. For crazy modulations I already have Reaktor which is a modular platform, and the modulations inside the vst synths and effects are more than enough for me.

I don't see the new price policy a wise decision, but it doesn't affect me as I won't buy another host! That made me more neutral than the against camp which I believe some others are. "We came to dance"! I mean we came for the cats. That doesn't make us trolls I think

[Daags]

But didn't Hink locked that long thread that people used to post images?

he did (or at least some mod did). Do you think there might be some corelation ?

I understood from his words that one thread about Bitwig is enough and we can post here! Sorry if I misunderstood.

You didn't misunderstand. Go ahead and post. It doesn't mean you can troll the thread just because you don't like what's being said on-topic.

I also thought that the images helps in bringing cheerful feelings and calming down little bit both camps!

You can think what you like, it's text-book trolling though ... and there's a reason that the people who have engaged in it all, for the most part, share the same POV. That's no coincidence.

everyone seems calm to me, btw - even in the face of ad hominems and so on.

if you really want to post cat pics, I'm pretty sure there's a thread, if not multiple threads, somewhere on the 'Everything else' or 'Off topic' sub-forums where you can knock yourself out to your heart's content. There is however only one Bitwig thread in the 'hosts' sub-forum, so if you don't mind, engage in the topic or go elsewhere to troll.