Does FLStudio have PDC?

[spaceman]

a bunch of girls blouses is what you all are
you seem to spend a lot of energy talking crap about something you obviously don't like, so why don't you all be good girls, piss off and go use an other app if you don't like it

[Mirabebe]

Success has nothing to do with anything. George Bush was very successfull becoming the american president and even has a good shot in the coming election but that still doesn't make him smart or good at it, at all.


And here step in the retarded comparisons.

I don't know what step of social ladder you are observing our little situation from... but Mr. G.W. is not only an extremely wealthy man, not only running the damn country any way he wishes to - but also most likely doesn't give a shit about some rebellious geek shaking his puny fist from some chatroom somewhere. In or out of the office come November - i am pretty sure he accomplished the top few items on his todo list and set himself up for some cashing in for himself and the ones who belong to the feeding circle.

All the while you and the other pundits congratulate themselves on fighting the good fight.

I am no supporter of Bush, but i dislike the stupid underestimation even more so.

[spaceman]

10 posts away from lock down, and counting

[Mirabebe]

10 posts away from lock down, and counting

Back on topic: Take that PDC and shove it?! Good enough?

[jmh]

Just a little clarification for those who fail to understand the problem with rendering loops:

You lose the initial 61 samples from the beginning with Fruity Compressor, plus you lose 61 samples from the end. This translates into 122 lost samples from the loop which makes the rendered loop useless.

As for the "99% of plugins don't introduce latency", it doesn't matter as long as there is a number of good quality, useful plugins that do. And the number of such plugins will only increase in the future. If they are in practice rendered useless in FL (when it comes to rendering loops)...

For me, FL would be the ideal tool, it complements my way of writing music almost perfectly. But every time I even consider talking a credit card holding friend about purchasing it for me (yes, I don't have a credit card =), these issues, inconveniences, bugs and whatnot make me hesitate - and reading about the issues on KVR make me decide to hold on. Sadly it looks like a long wait...

For what it's worth, I've always liked Gol's attitude on this forum, same goes for JMC too. I've grown to hate the constant whining and especially the crusading from a couple of fellow KVRians here, against ImageLine. Their way of dealing with people is refreshing and most of the time I'd say the people even deserve it. In most cases, I've agreed with their opinions and have been wondering why people don't have anything better to do than argue with them about some trivial issues that have already been answered to or dealt with. I could even add that I enjoy Gol's posts even when I don't agree with the things he's saying =)

However, I still can not really understand the way a couple of these feature requests have been dealt with, especially when talking about features that are practically taken for granted with other applications and when the answers to the question start going the way they've gone here...

From my experience, PDC is the second important thing I'd like to see introduced to Fruity. Even as a quick'n'dirty solution to get rid of the problems relating to loop rendering, it would be cool. A fullblown implementation is something I couldn't even dream of (especially with the current mixer routing etc in the equation). The most important thing would be fixing the vst wrapper so that UVI enginge plugins would behave properly - they trigger at weird interval compared to other plugins, ranging from 16th note delay to playing before other instruments (!!) and seem to work properly with most other hosts.

That'd be my 2 cents on the issue. And before the software police attacks me for my opinions, no, I'm not a FL studio owner / user (which probably renders everything I've written meaningless, leads to accusations about piracy and will in any case direct the conversation into something totally beside the current point(s) =)

Regards,

JMH

[bmanic]

Success has nothing to do with anything. George Bush was very successfull becoming the american president and even has a good shot in the coming election but that still doesn't make him smart or good at it, at all.


And here step in the retarded comparisons.

Yes you are correct sir, my bad. Sorry that I offended you. I'm as tired as you of using Bush as a target for frustration. I'm really sory about that, seriously. I'll try to come up with a better analogy for spaceman's stupid remarks some other time, ok? Too tired right now.

Peace
bManic

[spaceman]

Just a little clarification for those who fail to understand the problem with rendering loops:

You lose the initial 61 samples from the beginning with Fruity Compressor, plus you lose 61 samples from the end. This translates into 122 lost samples from the loop which makes the rendered loop useless.

As for the "99% of plugins don't introduce latency", it doesn't matter as long as there is a number of good quality, useful plugins that do. And the number of such plugins will only increase in the future. If they are in practice rendered useless in FL (when it comes to rendering loops)...

For me, FL would be the ideal tool, it complements my way of writing music almost perfectly. But every time I even consider talking a credit card holding friend about purchasing it for me (yes, I don't have a credit card =), these issues, inconveniences, bugs and whatnot make me hesitate - and reading about the issues on KVR make me decide to hold on. Sadly it looks like a long wait...

For what it's worth, I've always liked Gol's attitude on this forum, same goes for JMC too. I've grown to hate the constant whining and especially the crusading from a couple of fellow KVRians here, against ImageLine. Their way of dealing with people is refreshing and most of the time I'd say the people even deserve it. In most cases, I've agreed with their opinions and have been wondering why people don't have anything better to do than argue with them about some trivial issues that have already been answered to or dealt with. I could even add that I enjoy Gol's posts even when I don't agree with the things he's saying =)

However, I still can not really understand the way a couple of these feature requests have been dealt with, especially when talking about features that are practically taken for granted with other applications and when the answers to the question start going the way they've gone here...

From my experience, PDC is the second important thing I'd like to see introduced to Fruity. Even as a quick'n'dirty solution to get rid of the problems relating to loop rendering, it would be cool. A fullblown implementation is something I couldn't even dream of (especially with the current mixer routing etc in the equation). The most important thing would be fixing the vst wrapper so that UVI enginge plugins would behave properly - they trigger at weird interval compared to other plugins, ranging from 16th note delay to playing before other instruments (!!) and seem to work properly with most other hosts.

That'd be my 2 cents on the issue. And before the software police attacks me for my opinions, no, I'm not a FL studio owner / user (which probably renders everything I've written meaningless, leads to accusations about piracy and will in any case direct the conversation into something totally beside the current point(s) =)

some good point there towards the end

[spaceman]

Success has nothing to do with anything. George Bush was very successfull becoming the american president and even has a good shot in the coming election but that still doesn't make him smart or good at it, at all.


And here step in the retarded comparisons.

Yes you are correct sir, my bad. Sorry that I offended you. I'm as tired as you of using Bush as a target for frustration. I'm really sory about that, seriously. I'll try to come up with a better analogy for spaceman's stupid remarks some other time, ok? Too tired right now.

Peace
bManic

maybe you can't come up with a good analogy because there isn't one

I'm sure someone will come up with a good reason, but what's the problem of having 61 samples missing. 61 divided by, say 44100 is 0.0013832199546485260770975056689342 seconds of your loop. Now lets say that give you a click (can indeed happen), if you import you loop in your sequencer, say Cubase, isn't it just a matter of zooming in (way way deep) and adjusting the start of your loop so that it doesn't click (you now, zero snapping and all.. do you know that, zero snapping?)

so you've lost a thousandth of a second of your sample.. if that is too imprecise for you I'd really like to know what your composing.

[bmanic]

Just a little clarification for those who fail to understand the problem with rendering loops:

You lose the initial 61 samples from the beginning with Fruity Compressor, plus you lose 61 samples from the end. This translates into 122 lost samples from the loop which makes the rendered loop useless.

I'll clarify some more as the above is not completely correct:
The grand total of lost samples in the loop is 61. Because 61 samples of silence is inserted before the loop it shifts the timing of the whole loop by 61 samples. The rendering engine does not compensate for that shift which makes you loose the last 61 samples of original loop material.

Cheers!
bManic

[Sicklecell666]

Pardon my ignorant intrusion in this conversation, but due to FL's huge popularity & sheer volume of users, how has this issue gone largely un-noticed by so many ppl?

I'm really not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I'm a FL license holder, but I don't use it much really, & never noticed this.

Considering how many ppl are using loop based material in FL, can this be that noticable?

[bmanic]

I'm sure someone will come up with a good reason, but what's the problem of having 61 samples missing. 61 divided by, say 44100 is 0.0013832199546485260770975056689342 seconds of your loop. Now lets say that give you a click (can indeed happen), if you import you loop in your sequencer, say Cubase, isn't it just a matter of zooming in (way way deep) and adjusting the start of your loop so that it doesn't click (you now, zero snapping and all.. do you know that, zero snapping?)

so you've lost a thousandth of a second of your sample.. if that is too imprecise for you I'd really like to know what your composing.

Finally you come with some proper arguments and talk like and adult. I'm happy to see that you're back on earth. Now, try reading everything again and you'll see that even 61 samples results in a major flaw of the timing when you use that loop in another software for say, 4 minutes.

Here's how it works:

Yes, I CAN shift the loop to the real beginning by cutting away the silence, but guess what? The loop doesn't keep perfect timing any more! Try looping an 8 bar loop at 140bpm over 4 minutes with each loop missing 61 samples.

Like I said to gol, it's serious mostly because it's tedious. There is a workaround. I just render 9 bars (last bar empty) in FL Studio and cut away the silence manually but this involves checking each plugins individual latency in samples and calculating from there. This all fine and dandy if you have to do it once or twise but try a hundred times.

Still something unclear? Thanks for entering the discussion at an adult level.

Cheers!
bManic

[spaceman]

Pardon my ignorant intrusion in this conversation, but due to FL's huge popularity & sheer volume of users, how has this issue gone largely un-noticed by so many ppl?

I'm really not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I'm a FL license holder, but I don't use it much really, & never noticed this.

Considering how many ppl are using loop based material in FL, can this be that noticable?

someone mentions 61, someone else finds that -on it's own- quite a large number

means f**k all in my opinion (only matters if you want every note of your music accurate up to a thousandth of a second) and if it clicks or pops you can easily remedy that in your sequencer.. something you always have to do anyway, most loops from sample CDs need some adjusting as well after importing

but hey, hat does that mean.. that number 61 is pretty big, as a number, it's bigger for instance that 12 or 27


and FL is shit ofcourse and all those thousands of people are wrong, don't know what they're talking about

[spaceman]

I'm sure someone will come up with a good reason, but what's the problem of having 61 samples missing. 61 divided by, say 44100 is 0.0013832199546485260770975056689342 seconds of your loop. Now lets say that give you a click (can indeed happen), if you import you loop in your sequencer, say Cubase, isn't it just a matter of zooming in (way way deep) and adjusting the start of your loop so that it doesn't click (you now, zero snapping and all.. do you know that, zero snapping?)

so you've lost a thousandth of a second of your sample.. if that is too imprecise for you I'd really like to know what your composing.

Finally you come with some proper arguments and talk like and adult. I'm happy to see that you're back on earth. Now, try reading everything again and you'll see that even 61 samples results in a major flaw of the timing when you use that loop in another software for say, 4 minutes.

Here's how it works:

Yes, I CAN shift the loop to the real beginning by cutting away the silence, but guess what? The loop doesn't keep perfect timing any more! Try looping an 8 bar loop at 140bpm over 4 minutes with each loop missing 61 samples.

Like I said to gol, it's serious mostly because it's tedious. There is a workaround. I just render 9 bars (last bar empty) in FL Studio and cut away the silence manually but this involves checking each plugins individual latency in samples and calculating from there. This all fine and dandy if you have to do it once or twise but try a hundred times.

Still something unclear? Thanks for entering the discussion at an adult level.

adult blahblah..

ever heard of strech? or if you don't like strech
you can make every loop snap to the bar, it's not like you HAVE to glue them perfectly after one an other


and as I said before, you ALWAYS have to check your samples/loops when you import them in your sequencer

you can't expect everything to be spot on all the time, it's just not how things go/are

[Sicklecell666]

...that number 61 is pretty big, as a number, it's bigger for instance that 12 or 27...

uhm..you forgot eleventy-two & fourtilly-eight.

[bmanic]

Pardon my ignorant intrusion in this conversation, but due to FL's huge popularity & sheer volume of users, how has this issue gone largely un-noticed by so many ppl?

I'm really not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I'm a FL license holder, but I don't use it much really, & never noticed this.

Considering how many ppl are using loop based material in FL, can this be that noticable?

I've been wondering this for years. My guess is that
A) People use FL Studio mainly for complete song composing

B) People make loops but don't use plugins that have any latency

C) People make loops but reload them in fruity and don't notice the little delay as the loop is usually retriggered every bar (I think I might be able to hear that 61 samples even there tho.. have to do some ABX testing to see).

D) I'm super human.

E) Whatever you fancy (spaceman, anything to add? )

Cheers!
bManic