Does FLStudio have PDC?

[spaceman]

...that number 61 is pretty big, as a number, it's bigger for instance that 12 or 27...

uhm..you forgot eleventy-two & fourtilly-eight.

FL doesn't support imaginary numbers, renders it unusable for many mathematical uses.. I think Gol should address that to be honest.. Gol?

[spaceman]

Pardon my ignorant intrusion in this conversation, but due to FL's huge popularity & sheer volume of users, how has this issue gone largely un-noticed by so many ppl?

I'm really not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I'm a FL license holder, but I don't use it much really, & never noticed this.

Considering how many ppl are using loop based material in FL, can this be that noticable?

I've been wondering this for years. My guess is that
A) People use FL Studio mainly for complete song composing

B) People make loops but don't use plugins that have any latency

C) People make loops but reload them in fruity and don't notice the little delay as the loop is usually retriggered every bar (I think I might be able to hear that 61 samples even there tho.. have to do some ABX testing to see).

D) I'm super human.

E) Whatever you fancy (spaceman, anything to add? )

Cheers!
bManic

lets just conclude that for you and the way you work it's a problem, for most people it isn't.. other people wouldn't even touch it

it's all about preferences but you can expect a developer to please every one with everything (see Steinberg, etc.)

[Sicklecell666]

...that number 61 is pretty big, as a number, it's bigger for instance that 12 or 27...

uhm..you forgot eleventy-two & fourtilly-eight.

FL doesn't support imaginary numbers, renders it unusable for many mathematical uses.. I think Gol should address that to be honest.. Gol?

It's on the list of 'coming soon' features

[spaceman]

...that number 61 is pretty big, as a number, it's bigger for instance that 12 or 27...

uhm..you forgot eleventy-two & fourtilly-eight.

FL doesn't support imaginary numbers, renders it unusable for many mathematical uses.. I think Gol should address that to be honest.. Gol?

It's on the list of 'coming soon' features

I wonder where on the list my cup holder suggestion is at the moment?

[bmanic]

adult blahblah..

My bad again, I thought you were an adult. We'll I wont treat you like one then. It all makes sense though. I'll have to explain things a little simpler for you then.

ever heard of strech? or if you don't like strech
you can make every loop snap to the bar, it's not like you HAVE to glue them perfectly after one an other

Ok, and what stretch algorithm do you want me to use?
Resampling alters the pitch and thus phase of the loop which can then result in wrong phase lock with a second loop. Solution: resample the other loop with same amount. (duh!) 20 Loops = tedious

and as I said before, you ALWAYS have to check your samples/loops when you import them in your sequencer
you can't expect everything to be spot on all the time, it's just not how things go/are

Now that is just sad..

HUOH!
bManic

[Kingston]

I'm sure someone will come up with a good reason, but what's the problem of having 61 samples missing. 61 divided by, say 44100 is 0.0013832199546485260770975056689342 seconds of your loop. Now lets say that give you a click (can indeed happen), if you import you loop in your sequencer, say Cubase, isn't it just a matter of zooming in (way way deep) and adjusting the start of your loop so that it doesn't click (you now, zero snapping and all.. do you know that, zero snapping?)

so you've lost a thousandth of a second of your sample.. if that is too imprecise for you I'd really like to know what your composing.

Finally you come with some proper arguments and talk like and adult. I'm happy to see that you're back on earth. Now, try reading everything again and you'll see that even 61 samples results in a major flaw of the timing when you use that loop in another software for say, 4 minutes.

Here's how it works:

Yes, I CAN shift the loop to the real beginning by cutting away the silence, but guess what? The loop doesn't keep perfect timing any more! Try looping an 8 bar loop at 140bpm over 4 minutes with each loop missing 61 samples.

Like I said to gol, it's serious mostly because it's tedious. There is a workaround. I just render 9 bars (last bar empty) in FL Studio and cut away the silence manually but this involves checking each plugins individual latency in samples and calculating from there. This all fine and dandy if you have to do it once or twise but try a hundred times.

Still something unclear? Thanks for entering the discussion at an adult level.

adult blahblah..

ever heard of strech? or if you don't like strech
you can make every loop snap to the bar, it's not like you HAVE to glue them perfectly after one an other


and as I said before, you ALWAYS have to check your samples/loops when you import them in your sequencer

you can't expect everything to be spot on all the time, it's just not how things go/are

That does it for me!

spaceman, do us all a favour and pull your head out of your ass.

look, things like this are taken for granted in just about every other host. Depending on your working style it may or may not be a major issue.

You should *not* have to check every single loop before you import it to another app.

and that 61 samples was just an example. imagine 1024 samples and things start to get ugly.

that pdc on a master bus is quite simple to implement. Create a buffer, get buffer length from the combined latency of all plugins in master bus (or simply play back the file that much longer while rendering). Adjust wave start/end points based on the sample latency from the plugins.

Gol, fruity should do this. And it's very easy to implement.

[spaceman]

That does it for me!

spaceman, do us all a favour and pull your head out of your ass.

look, things like this are taken for granted in just about every other host. Depending on your working style it may or may not be a major issue.

use the other hosts then

You should *not* have to check every single loop before you import it to another app.

yes you should, otherwise you might get clicks and pops

and that 61 samples was just an example. imagine 1024 samples and things start to get ugly.

hmm.. yes, but we're not talking about 1024 samples, we're talking about 61

that pdc on a master bus in quite simple to implement. Create a buffer, get buffer length from the combined latency of all plugins in master bus (or simply play back the file that much longer while rendering). Adjust wave start/end points based on the sample latency from the plugins.

Gol, fruity should do this. And it's very easy to implement.

it's also completely useless to only have delay compensation on the master bus.. that's one of gol's arguments

and maniac...

you keep missing the point.. stretch your loop 61 samples (at a sample rate of 44100) means you'll be stretching your loop 0.001 seconds, if you hear the difference in pitch and in phase then you are indeed superhuman

I'll bow before you and kiss your feet in that case

[bmanic]

Duh,

it's YOU who keep missing the point. Either you have complete wax ears or you just have never layered sounds with sharp transients before. Even a kid can tell the difference of two kick drums on top of each oter that are properly synced (no phase problems, snappy sound) and one with 61 samples of shift.

Check it out, you might notice there's a whole wide world outside the one you think you know.

Keep em comin'
bManic

[Kingston]

That does it for me!

spaceman, do us all a favour and pull your head out of your ass.

look, things like this are taken for granted in just about every other host. Depending on your working style it may or may not be a major issue.

use the other hosts then

You should *not* have to check every single loop before you import it to another app.

yes you should, otherwise you might get clicks and pops

and that 61 samples was just an example. imagine 1024 samples and things start to get ugly.

hmm.. yes, but we're not talking about 1024 samples, we're talking about 61

that pdc on a master bus in quite simple to implement. Create a buffer, get buffer length from the combined latency of all plugins in master bus (or simply play back the file that much longer while rendering). Adjust wave start/end points based on the sample latency from the plugins.

Gol, fruity should do this. And it's very easy to implement.

it's also completely useless to only have delay compensation on the master bus.. that's one of gol's arguments

and maniac...

you keep missing the point.. stretch your loop 61 samples (at a sample rate of 44100) means you'll be stretching your loop 0.001 seconds, if you hear the difference in pitch and in phase then you are indeed superhuman

I'll bow before you and kiss your feet in that case

Oh jesus christ! You just don't get it do you?



(and it has to said to the bystanders that I think I may have encountered my first proper forum troll)

1) preventing those clicks and pops is very simple. 2) we do it through master bus pdc


and that is why, mister spaceman, you should just leave.

[jmh]

Haha, this is getting funny =)

Thanks bTm, my calculation was totally f*cked as I was thinking about one thing and writing about the other

This is just ridiculous, Spaceman hanging onto the number 61 without even trying to comprehend the issue.

The tired "used old hosts" reply, oh geez. Has it ever occured to anyone that usually the point of feature requests and such is about improving a good app rather than bashing it? It certainly is the point here - and seems to be totally lost on diehard FL fan(boy)s.


Kingston explains the PDC issue quite clearly. It is as simple as that and surely implementing a buffer isn't that big of a deal (unless clinging onto an old engine that takes extra effort with any alterations/additions, which would be a logical and acceptable explanation at least for me).

Somehow this makes me wonder that how can people simply render finished songs with Fruity at all, unless they're avoiding every single plugin that introduces latency. They don't hear the latency? They don't care? They don't use plugins at all? Do people always render things as tracks and finish the work in another program (when it could be done within FL rather easily)? Or do they render the tracks that contain delay introducing plugins and fix the timing by hand?

Somehow, the always surfacing comments about most FL users being aspiring bedroom musicians springs to mind. A lousy generalisation perhaps, but if the majority of them don't use plugins that introduce latency, or don't notice or care about it... oh well, I guess that explains it as well

Regards,

JMH

[jmh]

Now play spot the error...

Hint, replace "old" with "others" and it all comes clear

JMH

[spaceman]

so far I have only seen you two girls blouses bitching about this amazing problem.. I wonder why?

anyway.. I'll let you two girls at it, you obviously have a lot of extremely professional and accurate work to do, as there are; constructing an atomic clock using fruityloops

[spaceman]

Now play spot the error...

Hint, replace "old" with "others" and it all comes clear

yes, amazing wit

[jmh]

Spaceman, just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not a problem.

The way you're dealing with this issue somehow seems to fit the generalisation about FL users - amazing coincidence or is there more to it?-)

Care to enlighten us then how FL users deal with this issue, what is the simplest, fastest, most elegant workaround?

... thought so.

JMH

Yet another typo, yet another fix

[bmanic]

so far I have only seen you two girls blouses bitching about this amazing problem.. I wonder why?

anyway.. I'll let you two girls at it, you obviously have a lot of extremely professional and accurate work to do, as there are; constructing an atomic clock using fruityloops

And once you realize your own ignorance you retreat, burning all bridges by calling people names? Now how silly is that? Sigh.. I feel for you man. I really do.

Take care
bManic