bitwig 2 is here

[Daags]

No bug fixes after your 12 months runs out. Unless you pay.

Not at all, it doesn't say that, you are just making up your own interpretation. It could easily just relate to major versions (ie you could be on 2.3.2 and that could go 2.3.3 for a bug fix but you wound not get 2.4 with 'new features' unless you subscribed). No software company at is going to leave a paying customer with a version that doesn't work.

Why not just wait and see when the full official information is announced?

Are you sure about that? Didn't the CEO of bitwig say on Facebook that they would make bug fixes available to all outdated license holders, as you are suggesting, but shortly afterwards delete that post?

Actually, it's worse than that. it was the CTO btw, if I'm not mistaken. And what he said was - when pressed on Mac OS updates being likely to 'break' software that runs fine on the previous OS - Bitwig, in that particular scenario only, would issue some kind of fix (to people whose subscription was up).

and then as you say, deleted afterwards.

[memyselfandus]

This is actually a awesome update

Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression – In the past few years, multi-dimensional controllers have pushed the boundaries of MIDI, and created a gap between the degrees of freedom they are capable of and what DAWs and plug-ins were designed to utilize. Multi-dimensional controllers send gestural data that most software is not equipped to deal with, which limits the creative use of multi-dimensional controllers.Music instrument manufacturers and music software editors alike share a strong interest to agree upon a set of conventions that enable an improved user experience of new controllers, allowing to achieve more with electronic music than before.
This is where MPE (Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression) or “Expressive MIDI” comes in. By supporting this preliminary standard, Bitwig Studio 1.2 is among the first DAWs capable of capturing and utilizing the precise features of the most advanced MIDI controllers available on the market today.

Expressive MIDI allows for natural articulations which creates a significantly deeper connection to sound.
The following additional features:
Oscilloscope
Device Inspector
Delay-4
Expand Clip Height
High-DPI and Retina Display Support
Jack Support + Jack Transport
Poly to Mono Modulation Mappings
Pressure Note Expression
Roger Linn “LinnStrument” Support
Roli “Seaboard” Support

[woodsdenis]

No bug fixes after your 12 months runs out. Unless you pay.

Not at all, it doesn't say that, you are just making up your own interpretation. It could easily just relate to major versions (ie you could be on 2.3.2 and that could go 2.3.3 for a bug fix but you wound not get 2.4 with 'new features' unless you subscribed). No software company at is going to leave a paying customer with a version that doesn't work.

Why not just wait and see when the full official information is announced?

Ok if that is the case it would be really helpful if Dom could come on a state very clearly what their intention is.

[memyselfandus]

He was asked on here and said he didn't know.... and for those asking to ask customer service.


https://mobile.twitter.com/bitwig?lang=en

https://www.facebook.com/bitwig/

https://www.bitwig.com/en/support/contact.html

[Numanoid]

I'm not sure if you're trying to misunderstand their point, i.e being disingenuous, or if you genuinely forgot what the proposed official policy is going forward. Either way: kool, we can see now what is in 2.0 ...

But that is like the whole point at this point.

Bitwig v1 is about to be upgraded to v2 and they have stated what v2 will include on top of v1 features.

For those upgrading or buying v2 first time will get those features and keep them forever.

I have often asked why for example a plug like Sylenth1 hasn't been updated in 5 years.

And the answer I most often get is why do I need an update when the plug is rock solid ?

So if Bitwig 2 is rock solid, those buying into can enjoy it for many years without having to do an upgrade.

[SLiC]

Bitwig have NEVER said that if you don't upgrade you wont get support, all it says is that when you subscribe you get 'priority email support'. They have also NEVER said there will be no bug fixes, just no free 'new features' unless you subscribe. It doesn't mention anything about what you wont get, that is all speculation.

This is the sum total of information anyone has: https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/new-license-model.html

They have changed that. It used to say:

12 MONTHS OF FREE UPGRADES
Alongside the announcement of Bitwig Studio 2 we are also introducing a new license model.
Starting with the release of Bitwig Studio 2, you’ll get 12 months of free upgrades and updates with your purchase. This plan also includes email support.

See copy/paste from the site here: viewtopic.php?p=6674908#p6674908

There you go then, they listened (or it never meant to read that way) problem solved

Cute. So much for 'NEVER'.

Either way, the evolution to 'priority email' is still uncomfortably vague. Not quite as explicit as the original wording, but still essentially allowing them to do the exact same thing ... treat you as 'non priority' if your subscription is up.

At any rate, perhaps this tacit acknowledgement of yours that the 'squeeky wheel gets the oil' will maybe mean you'll now stop with smarmy posts like this:

So I asked for a refund given:

They changed their update policy to subscription. Only 12 month bug fixes. Considering it's taken them 3 years I can't see them releasing anything significant in 12 months .

They are not offering a reasonable upgrade price . 3/4 of original price every 12 months is not reasonable.

They did not deliver on promised V2 features - modular environment , network collaboration .

They banned me from Bitwig forums for expressing this view

Support reply was - We have not implemented a subscription model and you've been too long a customer for a refund.

I'll stick with Logic and Live . Much better.

OK- point made. Bye.

it's people like him, who are making their point, and even make it 'over and over' if needs be, that get positive results that YOU benefit from. remember that.

I don't want or need any help thanks, I think its good value and am more than happy to pay, I don't need them to change anything, please don't assume its an issue for everyone a lot of us cant wait to upgrade.

[SLiC]

No bug fixes after your 12 months runs out. Unless you pay.

Not at all, it doesn't say that, you are just making up your own interpretation. It could easily just relate to major versions (ie you could be on 2.3.2 and that could go 2.3.3 for a bug fix but you wound not get 2.4 with 'new features' unless you subscribed). No software company at is going to leave a paying customer with a version that doesn't work.

Why not just wait and see when the full official information is announced?

Are you sure about that? Didn't the CEO of bitwig say on Facebook that they would make bug fixes available to all outdated license holders, as you are suggesting, but shortly afterwards delete that post?

Actually, it's worse than that. it was the CTO btw, if I'm not mistaken. And what he said was - when pressed on Mac OS updates being likely to 'break' software that runs fine on the previous OS - Bitwig, in that particular scenario only, would issue some kind of fix (to people whose subscription was up).

and then as you say, deleted afterwards.

So if he deleted the post, isn't it fair to assume that that isn't going to be the case? (rather like no email support comment being changed). I would take this as a positive sign, fortunately you don't have to upgrade and you can wait and see what the official policy is when the upgrade is available before deciding.

[elxsound]

No bug fixes after your 12 months runs out. Unless you pay.

Not at all, it doesn't say that, you are just making up your own interpretation. It could easily just relate to major versions (ie you could be on 2.3.2 and that could go 2.3.3 for a bug fix but you wound not get 2.4 with 'new features' unless you subscribed). No software company at is going to leave a paying customer with a version that doesn't work.

Why not just wait and see when the full official information is announced?

Are you sure about that? Didn't the CEO of bitwig say on Facebook that they would make bug fixes available to all outdated license holders, as you are suggesting, but shortly afterwards delete that post?

Actually, it's worse than that. it was the CTO btw, if I'm not mistaken. And what he said was - when pressed on Mac OS updates being likely to 'break' software that runs fine on the previous OS - Bitwig, in that particular scenario only, would issue some kind of fix (to people whose subscription was up).

and then as you say, deleted afterwards.

So if he deleted the post, isn't it fair to assume that that isn't going to be the case? (rather like no email support comment being changed). I would take this as a positive sign, fortunately you don't have to upgrade and you can wait and see what the official policy is when the upgrade is available before deciding.

I don't think your post makes sense... Are you saying the deletion of that comment should be taken as a good sign that they will provide bug fix updates after the sub is up?

I think it was deleted because it would be too expensive to maintain separate builds for subscribers and non-subscribers, not to mention it would defeat the purpose of the current model.

As I've said before, this is the problem with Avid's perpetual license model. I've been down this road, and its one I don't care for at their current asking price.

[SLiC]

I think its a good sign they are still thinking about it and that noting official has been posted (just social media) clarifying one way or another. For me personally it makes no difference as I want the modular/hardware stiff so I am in either way for at least the first year...I really cant think more than 1 year ahead (about anything!) and am happy to get more free stuff in that year (as what I actually want is the modulators and hardware stuff for my eurorack, anything else is a bonus as far as I am concerned.)

[elxsound]

I think its a good sign they are still thinking about it and that noting official has been posted (just social media) clarifying one way or another. For me personally it makes no difference as I want the modular/hardware stiff so I am in either way for at least the first year...I really cant think more than 1 year ahead (about anything!) and am happy to get more free stuff in that year (as what I actually want is the modulators and hardware stuff for my eurorack, anything else is a bonus as far as I am concerned.)

I won't fault you for being steadfastly positive, but truth be told... none of us know what they are thinking.

For you, it makes sense to see it as a positive, and again... there's nothing wrong with that especially since you are all in, regardless of the answer.

For others, the "outcry" is a want for concrete answers since their posting and subsequent deleting of those posts has left us with more uncertainty (or in some cases... simply the same uncertainty as before).

[SLiC]

I think its a good sign they are still thinking about it and that noting official has been posted (just social media) clarifying one way or another. For me personally it makes no difference as I want the modular/hardware stiff so I am in either way for at least the first year...I really cant think more than 1 year ahead (about anything!) and am happy to get more free stuff in that year (as what I actually want is the modulators and hardware stuff for my eurorack, anything else is a bonus as far as I am concerned.)

I won't fault you for being steadfastly positive, but truth be told... none of us know what they are thinking.

For you, it makes sense to see it as a positive, and again... there's nothing wrong with that especially since you are all in, regardless of the answer.

For others, the "outcry" is a want for concrete answers since their posting and subsequent deleting of those posts has left us with more uncertainty (or in some cases... simply the same uncertainty as before).

That is a very reasoned reply. Like you say, I can be positive as I am in anyway, but also I think Bitwig will adapt/moderate or even change their policy now or in a year as it will be a hard to maintain (they are all ready saying things like they would give a couple of months free subscription if there were bugs etc,) I posted earlier that I see no benifit in this model, but that I had had a lot of free upgrades with V1 and was happy to try it for a year. I don't expect to be left with software that doesn't work after a year, and I don't know if I will want or need to upgrade after that...I will have bought a V2 upgrade as far as I am concerned. Happy thoughts to all concerned, don't get angery (or banned!) over this, there is a 40 page thread on the Bitwig forum regarding subscription, I think Bitwig and everyone else knows the score, let's give them some time to come to market with the update.....

[rod_zero]

Well they wrote one thing then deleted it. Seems they don't want to commit.

Seriously I don't think they thought about this model quite well enough.

[incubus]

And to think, stock brokers speculate over the future of our country the same way we speculate over bitwig!

[elxsound]

And to think, stock brokers speculate over the future of our country the same way we speculate over bitwig!

That is correct sir. Get ready for a big drop in March.

[Andrei Marchenko]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9#p6689149