DAW with a "human" workflow?

[Andrei Marchenko]

Bitwig. Best workflow ever for me.

[shonoob]

Bitwig has the most proficient workflow bar none imo, i've tried Able, cubase, FL and Bitwig (speaking strictly workflow wise), is very sexy.

[liquidsound]

I've used MuLab since v2.0 and Live from v7.0 and Reason 2.5 on.
Live covers the improvisation workflow and turn a collage into a nice arrangement when you feel ready to go linear.
Reason puts me into a separate world.
MuLab what I use the most for clear ideas but you really need to find the right balance between its deep modular possibility (getting lost in rabbit holes with lots of fun) and its semplistic quick composition layout.
Are you sure you explored the latest MuLab and allow an interactive experience with its unique tools and workflow?

[andrew732]

Can you be any more specific about what "human" means to you? What types of tasks do you do the most? Live audio recording? Live MIDI recording? Editing? Mixing? Shuffling different ideas around in an arrangement? It matters.

For example, Cubase is probably viewed as just about the least sexy DAW these days, but any time I try something else, I feel like I have to fight with it, probably because most of the time what I actually do in a DAW is editing, especially editing of MIDI data, and Cubase is unmatched for that.

Like others have said, if your problem is that you previously were happy and productive with your DAW, but lately you've felt uninspired, then there must be deeper issues than whatever can be solved by switching DAWs.

[EnGee]

My guess is that you will be settled in the end either with Studio One or with Cubase (Artist or Pro). Both are very 'human' to me

I prefer Cubase mostly, but Studio One also has really a nice design, interface and workflow. It also doesn't need a dongle or a specific protection software. You can install it on 5 computers and use them simultaneously.

Now, why I prefer Cubase? For many reasons (I'm talking now about Cubase Artist version vs the Pro version of S1):

- Fonts, colours and contrast are the best in a DAW IMO. Very comfortable to the eyes. That alone would make you keep returning to Cubase

- Instruments and drums are out of the box better (Retrologue 2, Padshop, Groove Agent SE, Halion Sonic SE, ...etc).

- Midi in general is better than in S1. Midi tools are fantastic. Beat Designer is easy and a great way to make your beats fast. Other midi tools like Step Designer (step sequencer), Arpeggio ... etc. I know you might not need them, but the nice thing of them is you can enable recording the midi from them to the tracks and then disable them. Very elegant implementation.

- Media Bay (Media browser) is very useful. You can add the midi/audio folders to it, then it will scan all and add it. Nothing surprising till now, but... Cubase is the only DAW I have tried that you can review the midi patterns in both their original bpm and the host bpm! This is very important if you have many drums patterns and you need to review them in both their original tempo and/or host's tempo.

- Version 9 made the Windows management really nice and on par with S1.

- CPU usage is better than Studio One. But it can't give you the details of every instrument/effect, only the total (both DSP and System).

- Chords pads and chords tracks. They are essential for you as you are mostly 70's and 80's guy Really, they are very good and make your decision about chords progression easier (really a great feature). I sold EZKeys because of that, because I even prefer Cubase's implementation.

There are other things like basic notation (only Pro has the full great notation), Arranger tracks (something like pattern based), ..etc. I don't use them a lot really.

Now, the downside is you need to buy a dongle (if you upgrade from Elements). Cubase Artist is also like the same price of Studio One Pro v3 in the 2nd hand market. Studio One Pro has unlimited tracks and a special Project page for mastering. It also has a very nice scratch pads, so you can compose your ideas first here or modify them, then go back and forth with the tracks (very nice feature, but only in S1 Pro).

Still, I use Cubase Artist more (it has 32 tracks limits, but that doesn't bother me!). Making drums patterns or choosing them and modify them is just easier and better in Cubase. Midi functions are more, and synth's window doesn't have all that extra top margin ... in short the workflow and composing drums and midi are better for me in Cubase and I suppose you'll find the same.

Live intro 9 is an excellent DAW for the price, but it is more to be a second host IMO. Anyway, my opinion is to save more money and to buy Cubase Artist 9 (with the dongle) or Studio One v3 Pro. I'm sure you will be happy with either one. The keyboard shortcuts in both are nice and friendly. It speeds the recording and editing after some time getting used to them.

[antoniaz]

[quote="fluffy_little_something"]
[quote="antoniaz"]Take a look at MultitrackStudio (http://www.multitrackstudio.com), it could meet your requirements. I tried virtually all DAWs in recent years and still MTS is one that I prefer in many cases. Stock instruments are basic, stock effects are quite nice but the GUI concept and the workflow are unique. You must add some external plugin of course.[/quote]

Never heard of it, but it looks promising. Will try it, such a tiny download :D

It seems to disable plugins' own shortcuts and redirects me to wrong folders.
Nor have I figured out yet how to keep a plugin sounding after closing its GUI.[/quote]

You can customize the path of plugins from Studio > Preferences menu
The default look is also a bit legacy, but you can change it to achieve your own skin.
The MTS developer (Giel Bremmers) is very responsive on the MTS Forum, so for any further doubt you can contact him.
Again, I think the value of MTS is not in the stock instruments or effects but in the original GUI design, simple but effective. My preferred special things are the vertically managed parallel panels, the drum editor, the soundfont player (Mac only), the multi part editing, the pattern mode.

 

[fluffy_little_something]

You can customize the path of plugins from Studio > Preferences menu
The default look is also a bit legacy, but you can change it to achieve your own skin.
The MTS developer (Giel Bremmers) is very responsive on the MTS Forum, so for any further doubt you can contact him.
Again, I think the value of MTS is not in the stock instruments or effects but in the original GUI design, simple but effective. My preferred special things are the vertically managed parallel panels, the drum editor, the soundfont player (Mac only), the multi part editing, the pattern mode.

Yes, I had changed those paths already. But that DAW seems to memorize any last location used (when saving projects for instance) when I try to open my Sylenth1 patch folder from within Sylenth1, for instance. The Sylenth1 short keys don't seem to work at all.

The instruments are a joke, but probably only meant for downloading and playing back complete Midi songs, anyway.

Well, I will play around with it some more...
I assume there is a reason why nobody ever mentions that DAW...

[antoniaz]

[quote="fluffy_little_something"][quote="antoniaz"]You can customize the path of plugins from Studio > Preferences menu
The default look is also a bit legacy, but you can change it to achieve your own skin.
The MTS developer (Giel Bremmers) is very responsive on the MTS Forum, so for any further doubt you can contact him.
Again, I think the value of MTS is not in the stock instruments or effects but in the original GUI design, simple but effective. My preferred special things are the vertically managed parallel panels, the drum editor, the soundfont player (Mac only), the multi part editing, the pattern mode.
[/quote]

Yes, I had changed those paths already. But that DAW seems to memorize any last location used (when saving projects for instance) when I try to open my Sylenth1 patch folder from within Sylenth1, for instance. The Sylenth1 short keys don't seem to work at all.

The instruments are a joke, but probably only meant for downloading and playing back complete Midi songs, anyway.

Well, I will play around with it some more...
I assume there is a reason why nobody ever mentions that DAW...[/quote]


Are you on Windows or Mac? I never had issues with plugins except for the fact that MTS on Mac is currently 32-bit only.

[fluffy_little_something]

Windows 7
(How do you manage to screw up the quotes in your posts all the time? )

[fluffy_little_something]

My guess is that you will be settled in the end either with Studio One or with Cubase (Artist or Pro). Both are very 'human' to me

I prefer Cubase mostly, but Studio One also has really a nice design, interface and workflow. It also doesn't need a dongle or a specific protection software. You can install it on 5 computers and use them simultaneously.

Now, why I prefer Cubase? For many reasons (I'm talking now about Cubase Artist version vs the Pro version of S1):

- Fonts, colours and contrast are the best in a DAW IMO. Very comfortable to the eyes. That alone would make you keep returning to Cubase

- Instruments and drums are out of the box better (Retrologue 2, Padshop, Groove Agent SE, Halion Sonic SE, ...etc).

- Midi in general is better than in S1. Midi tools are fantastic. Beat Designer is easy and a great way to make your beats fast. Other midi tools like Step Designer (step sequencer), Arpeggio ... etc. I know you might not need them, but the nice thing of them is you can enable recording the midi from them to the tracks and then disable them. Very elegant implementation.

- Media Bay (Media browser) is very useful. You can add the midi/audio folders to it, then it will scan all and add it. Nothing surprising till now, but... Cubase is the only DAW I have tried that you can review the midi patterns in both their original bpm and the host bpm! This is very important if you have many drums patterns and you need to review them in both their original tempo and/or host's tempo.

- Version 9 made the Windows management really nice and on par with S1.

- CPU usage is better than Studio One. But it can't give you the details of every instrument/effect, only the total (both DSP and System).

- Chords pads and chords tracks. They are essential for you as you are mostly 70's and 80's guy Really, they are very good and make your decision about chords progression easier (really a great feature). I sold EZKeys because of that, because I even prefer Cubase's implementation.

There are other things like basic notation (only Pro has the full great notation), Arranger tracks (something like pattern based), ..etc. I don't use them a lot really.

Now, the downside is you need to buy a dongle (if you upgrade from Elements). Cubase Artist is also like the same price of Studio One Pro v3 in the 2nd hand market. Studio One Pro has unlimited tracks and a special Project page for mastering. It also has a very nice scratch pads, so you can compose your ideas first here or modify them, then go back and forth with the tracks (very nice feature, but only in S1 Pro).

Still, I use Cubase Artist more (it has 32 tracks limits, but that doesn't bother me!). Making drums patterns or choosing them and modify them is just easier and better in Cubase. Midi functions are more, and synth's window doesn't have all that extra top margin ... in short the workflow and composing drums and midi are better for me in Cubase and I suppose you'll find the same.

Live intro 9 is an excellent DAW for the price, but it is more to be a second host IMO. Anyway, my opinion is to save more money and to buy Cubase Artist 9 (with the dongle) or Studio One v3 Pro. I'm sure you will be happy with either one. The keyboard shortcuts in both are nice and friendly. It speeds the recording and editing after some time getting used to them.

Thanks for your detailed views. Interesting how opinions on Cubase differ. Some seem to hate it, some love it
What is important to me for instance is being able to select a couple of notes in the editor and move them to the right position via the arrow keys. Mulab does not support that it seems. I can select them, but when I drag them with the mouse, more often than not that changes both timing and pitch rather than just either one. Arrow keys are much more comfortable as they don't touch the timing when transposing, or the pitch when correcting the timing.
Things like that matter to me. The editor is by far the most important part of a DAW to me. When that is inefficient, the whole DAW is.

[Michael L]

Fluffy, in MuLab when you drag notes straight to the right it does not change the pitch. Also, there are R-click context menus that include Change Timing and Transpose, as well as hundreds of shortcut keys that include more detailed changes, such as Transpose +1, Transpose +12. For example, you can map the UpArrow to Transpose +1 with each tap. It might be easier to get to know MuLab better and customize it, than to change DAWs. Just sayin'

[fluffy_little_something]

I am not a robot, so dragging perfectly horizontal OR vertical is almost impossible for me. (That is also why I hate menus and sub-menus that open to the side.)

I have noticed on many occasions that Mulab is not set up in an intuitive, conventional way by default. Right-clicking on a note bar for instance deletes it rather than opens a context menu.
Mulab just doesn't match my workflow, it is not intuitive. It has so many things I don't need, and what I need is often not conventional.

Mixcraft is very different in that respect. I can use it without configuring short keys or studying help files. The people behind it think similar to the way I think.

I also continue to think there is something weird about the way Mulab reports CPU core usage to Windows. It shows exactly the same load for all cores, which is certainly wrong. So, with demanding synths I can have crackling because one core is full, while Task Manager shows 20% or so for all cores.

So, I will certainly switch to another DAW. I just don't know yet which one. Will check Cubase screenshots now, screenshots already say a lot.

[DJ Warmonger]

How do human musicans work (as opposed to KVR musicans )? They have some ideas, try early sketches, record something. Then build arrangement. Then the track is mixed, finally mastered.

I got my first release out soon as I tried this pattern. Ableton supports it, but for years I've been doing it wrong. This is not a problem with DAW probably.

[EnGee]

I am not a robot, so dragging perfectly horizontal OR vertical is almost impossible for me. (That is also why I hate menus and sub-menus that open to the side.)

I have noticed on many occasions that Mulab is not set up in an intuitive, conventional way by default. Right-clicking on a note bar for instance deletes it rather than opens a context menu.
Mulab just doesn't match my workflow, it is not intuitive. It has so many things I don't need, and what I need is often not conventional.

Mixcraft is very different in that respect. I can use it without configuring short keys or studying help files. The people behind it think similar to the way I think.

I also continue to think there is something weird about the way Mulab reports CPU core usage to Windows. It shows exactly the same load for all cores, which is certainly wrong. So, with demanding synths I can have crackling because one core is full, while Task Manager shows 20% or so for all cores.

So, I will certainly switch to another DAW. I just don't know yet which one. Will check Cubase screenshots now, screenshots already say a lot.

I understand what you mean. I also prefer moving with the arrow keys other than mouse especially in a very precise way. I'll check that (and other midi things when I'm near my PC with three DAWs, Cubase, S1 and Live, although I'm pretty sure you can do that, but I'll confirm it).

Meanwhile, I suggest to download the manuals and have a look at the midi editing section. I'm sure, it can tell you a lot

[rod_zero]

Two good videos to understand Live:





Bitwig is very similar, lots of similar concepts. I can use BW without reading the manual since it is such a copycat of Live.

Be aware that Bitwig has announced a new model where you only get 12 months of updates and you have to pay 169 USD for other 12 months if you want to update after those 12 months, but you can stop paying at any time.