BW-Tron Beta Tests
-
- KVRAF
- 2117 posts since 24 Feb, 2004 from Germany
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4536 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
Hello everybody!
I publish a new link to the new beta version (0.5) within the next two or three days, with almost all the improvements which have been suggested.
In fact the suggestions which remain yet really absent are the suggestion to split the keyboard (he he, not easy to do, that thing, seen from my small knowledge of the developments) and the suggestion to loop the samples (it must be done in a soundfont sample editor like Viena, and it is what I do, but it is an operation which is very delicate to do with acoustic orchestral instruments which are fully alive along all the duration of the note with never exactly the same pitch and never exactly the same amplitude... therefore to avoid any click it is needed to find very accurately the best start point and the best end point (having the same amplitude and the same exact pitch than the start point)... for each loop, thus for each note of each instrument... and after two weeks I haven't ended to make the job for just the cello, ha ha !)
Looping samples is very easy with samples coming from synths or organs for examples, but coming from acoustic orchestral instruments it is a work of monk knowing that in acoustics the devil is in the details.
The first version of BW-Tron won't have the loop mode but it is a challenge which really enthralls me for a future version.
But all the other suggestions are done, and a friend is currently making a first try (independently of me) and if today and tomorrow he and I we don't find any obvious issue, I shall submit to you all the new result to make you keep on testing it.
Just a point: the GUI will not be yet finished. The most important is first what is under the hood. I think that the bodywork can be finished in just some hours after the end of the most important which is of course the test of the acoustics results and of the features.
A point which will perhaps enjoy some of you: there will be at the end several skins, all based on precious woods (among them the traditional ebony skin and the traditional ivory skin of course for a Mellotron... but also a Cuban mahogany skin and a Rosewood skin). That choice of several very different skins is not to underrate, it has also the purpose to make the plugin the most readable regard the visual abilities of each one.
I publish a new link to the new beta version (0.5) within the next two or three days, with almost all the improvements which have been suggested.
In fact the suggestions which remain yet really absent are the suggestion to split the keyboard (he he, not easy to do, that thing, seen from my small knowledge of the developments) and the suggestion to loop the samples (it must be done in a soundfont sample editor like Viena, and it is what I do, but it is an operation which is very delicate to do with acoustic orchestral instruments which are fully alive along all the duration of the note with never exactly the same pitch and never exactly the same amplitude... therefore to avoid any click it is needed to find very accurately the best start point and the best end point (having the same amplitude and the same exact pitch than the start point)... for each loop, thus for each note of each instrument... and after two weeks I haven't ended to make the job for just the cello, ha ha !)
Looping samples is very easy with samples coming from synths or organs for examples, but coming from acoustic orchestral instruments it is a work of monk knowing that in acoustics the devil is in the details.
The first version of BW-Tron won't have the loop mode but it is a challenge which really enthralls me for a future version.
But all the other suggestions are done, and a friend is currently making a first try (independently of me) and if today and tomorrow he and I we don't find any obvious issue, I shall submit to you all the new result to make you keep on testing it.
Just a point: the GUI will not be yet finished. The most important is first what is under the hood. I think that the bodywork can be finished in just some hours after the end of the most important which is of course the test of the acoustics results and of the features.
A point which will perhaps enjoy some of you: there will be at the end several skins, all based on precious woods (among them the traditional ebony skin and the traditional ivory skin of course for a Mellotron... but also a Cuban mahogany skin and a Rosewood skin). That choice of several very different skins is not to underrate, it has also the purpose to make the plugin the most readable regard the visual abilities of each one.
Last edited by BlackWinny on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
-
- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 13 Mar, 2008 from Arnhem, Netherlands
Cool!
Eager to try it out.
Keyboard split would be cool, but not essential as I can always just use two instances...
Eager to try it out.
Keyboard split would be cool, but not essential as I can always just use two instances...
-
- KVRAF
- 2117 posts since 24 Feb, 2004 from Germany
Nice.
For me, looping isn't necessary. It's a virtual clone, and the original unit did not have loops.
Keyboard split in Synthedit isn't that hard to do. There are special third party modules for this (dd_midisplitzones , rc midi split), or use a comparator (pitch) and a flow control for the gate/pitch signals.
For me, looping isn't necessary. It's a virtual clone, and the original unit did not have loops.
Keyboard split in Synthedit isn't that hard to do. There are special third party modules for this (dd_midisplitzones , rc midi split), or use a comparator (pitch) and a flow control for the gate/pitch signals.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4536 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
Hello Wolfgang,WOK wrote:Nice.
For me, looping isn't necessary. It's a virtual clone, and the original unit did not have loops.
Keyboard split in Synthedit isn't that hard to do. There are special third party modules for this (dd_midisplitzones , rc midi split), or use a comparator (pitch) and a flow control for the gate/pitch signals.
Thanks for your advice about the MIDI split modules.
I have perhaps found a solution which will satisfy: For each part (A and B) I have put the choice to shift the octave (-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3) on the keyboard, so that the A side can be played with the left hand while the B side is played by the right hand (or the inverse for the musician playing under a circus tent
).I'm currently working on the GUI, to now make it presentable with the new knobs.
Almost all the suggestions have now been implemented. I think, like you and others, that looping is not only unnecessary but would also be a pity, removing a great part of the personality of the Mellotron. And to have this constraint of 7-8 seconds is also a challenge for the musician to make good scores of music with that constraint of an old model of instrument. Prog rock musicians did it... so we should be able to do too...
These modules dd_midisplitzones and rc_midi_split will have a big interest for me in a next instrument I'm planning to create (for myself in a first time), as I told a bit recently in the Synthedit Yahoo group: an organ having two or three manuals (two or three keyboards), something inspired (but not at all pretending to be an emulation) by the Farfisa Combo Duo for example or by some models of the Yamaha Electone organs. These instruments have always made me dream...
But first, my next instrument after the Mellotron will be an attempt to make a true emulation of something much simpler... but very famous in the Krautrock music: the Elka Rhapsody (490 first then 610 later). And by true synthesis, without samples.
Last edited by BlackWinny on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
-
- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 13 Mar, 2008 from Arnhem, Netherlands
Very cool BW!
Indeed, looping would ruin the vintage vibe. There's even a name for the technique of trying to get chords sounding for longer than those 8 seconds": "spider crawling".
Wouldn't want to miss out on developing that skill, now would we?
Also very interested in your attempt at the Elka
Indeed, looping would ruin the vintage vibe. There's even a name for the technique of trying to get chords sounding for longer than those 8 seconds": "spider crawling".
Wouldn't want to miss out on developing that skill, now would we?
Also very interested in your attempt at the Elka
-
- KVRAF
- 2117 posts since 24 Feb, 2004 from Germany
I have gone thru this with a Solina emulation:BlackWinny wrote:But first, my next instrument after the Mellotron will be an attempt to make a true emulation of something much simpler... but very famous in the Krautrock music: the Elka Rhapsody (490 first then 610 later). And by true synthesis, without samples.
http://wokwave.com/old-plugins/html/cromina.html
With the old Synthedit, this was a (cpu-)heavy construction with 64 running oscillators to emulate the octave divider with fixed wave phases.
This
http://wokwave.com/old-plugins/html/est ... t_wok.html
was done with the new Synthedit, which has a different behaviour; it keeps "reusing" the same osc (with the same phase) for each keypress, until all keys are released and the ADSR's are finished. So at least while changing chords the phase between the notes stays the same.
-
- KVRian
- 1478 posts since 14 Jul, 2013 from Sweden
Can we, please, have the two preset lists on a separate tab that also can be a preset manager window.
The selectors above the lists cna remain on the main tab. It'll make it cleaner and give more space. I would really really prefer that then having both lists in the main window.
The selectors above the lists cna remain on the main tab. It'll make it cleaner and give more space. I would really really prefer that then having both lists in the main window.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4536 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
I can make the two lists shorter. The use of several tabs is extremely boring in VSTs. Especially on so simple instruments like a Mellotron emulation. It is not a synth. And in addition... the management of tabs is not so easy to make. I know how to make tabs (you saw it on other creations I made) but that kind of tab on a Mellotron emulation...sfd wrote:Can we, please, have the two preset lists on a separate tab that also can be a preset manager window.
The selectors above the lists cna remain on the main tab. It'll make it cleaner and give more space. I would really really prefer that then having both lists in the main window.
And about presets... is there really need of a management of presets in a Mellotron emulation?
The built-in list of each side will even have mixed instruments in the list in addition to the single individual instruments. It offers a very wide palette of sounds (more than 50 timbres on EACH side) event without having to manage presets!
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
-
- KVRian
- 1478 posts since 14 Jul, 2013 from Sweden
Well since the MIDI information is sotred in either presets or bganks it could be a good thing to have at least one. So that one can store the MIDI Leanr settings.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4536 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France
This, yes, will be a good thing. And there is no need of a tab for that, given that it needs only two buttons, one for load and one for save.sfd wrote:Well since the MIDI information is sotred in either presets or bganks it could be a good thing to have at least one. So that one can store the MIDI Leanr settings.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.
-
- KVRian
- 1478 posts since 14 Jul, 2013 from Sweden
-
- KVRian
- 1224 posts since 2 Dec, 2008 from Finland
Re: setting loop points, Björn Bojahr's Endless WAV can help in the process. The description there is in German but the application itself is in English. It has a small screen that lets you zoom in on the start and end points at the same time, so it's relatively easy to match them after you've set them coarsely around the right spots. The loop points are saved in the wave files, so you have to recreate the soundfonts with the updated .wavs though.
-
- KVRAF
- 2117 posts since 24 Feb, 2004 from Germany
Shouldn't the VST-preset management (store, recall) be done by the host?sfd wrote:Well since the MIDI information is sotred in either presets or bganks it could be a good thing to have at least one. So that one can store the MIDI Leanr settings.