Your next guitar?

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

maybe the way to purchase an expensive guitar, is to go to a local luthier, and have it built to spec.

it does seem like names like 'gibson' and such carry a hefty premium...

[incubus]

Blame all the dentists that hang them on the wall.

Back to Carvin, they ARE a custom guitar. You pick the wood, the pickups, the hardware, the colors, etc. Mostly (unless you go crazy with the eye-candy) they are WAY under market price for lesser gods. I know, I'm trying to get rid of some of those.

Anyways, the only way to trust a "luthier" is to know and have played their stuff. Generally, a good guitar maker will cost you about 3k AND UP.

[incubus]

Gorgeous!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ ... ric-guitar

Can't get 'em right now (new for namm) so no gas. But something to consider. My 7 string is about a good a quality instrument as you can get.

[Daimonicon]

Well after seen a lot of guitar videos from NAMM it looks like most guitar manufacturers abandons Tone Pro Bridges in favor for hipshot.

[tapper mike]

maybe the way to purchase an expensive guitar, is to go to a local luthier, and have it built to spec.

it does seem like names like 'gibson' and such carry a hefty premium...

Actually wish I could find the link on top of the line fender custom, Gibson Made to measure and PRS Premium article with regards to the collector value. Much much more extra effort goes into building these super high end guitars then one would think. All the brands have better roi for their "regular" guitars as well as their cash cow lines (Epi,Squire, SE)

As well when we consider what a classical player is required to have to perform in a synphony as opposed to what a working musician has to play the difference is quite striking.
http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/2 ... uch?page=1


So let's talk about "ears" for a moment. I know it's a sensitive topic as we all develop our own listening ears based on exposure to music from an early age. My jazz guitar ears are conditioned to the Gibson Jazz guitar sound. Washburn makes some fine jazz guitars, well crafted that... quite frankly I have not now nor will I ever adjust to the feel of them. Years ago I went out window shopping for a new archtop. I knew I could never afford a true Gibson ES-175, Super 400 or L5. Those are the sounds that are buried in my soul when it comes to great jazz guitar tone...more on that later....
So I went through more then a dozen Washburn's and could find no love. I'm a Godin fan and had three Godin's previously but the 5th ave jazz box just didn't happen for me. I'm also a fan of Samick and I've had a Samick Box before that I'd used professionally..

The new samicks (JZ) didn't cut it for me. Nor did the artcores or anything from Ibanez shy of the GB. Eventually I stumble upon my Guitar Research (Sam Ash) Eddie Durham. Which fit the bill both for the "Nearest equivalent of a Gibson tonally" Much closer than epi's. but still no gibby.

Sure now I have a variax which does a good job of recreating a 175 and a super400 but it will never satisfy the physical feel nor the visual impact of one of these instruments.

So with all of that out of the way it's time to talk about ears and cultural brainwashing. (Including mine)

First it's important to understand how the whole gibson "consortium/old boy network" used to work. Let's take Tal Farlow. Before he had a Signature guitar by Gibson. He was a paid spokesman for Gibson. Gibson gave him his guitars and Every time His image graced a magazine or newspaper he would always have his Gibson guitar in view displaying the Gibson headstock. One time (I wish I could find the video where he speaks of his affiliation with Gibson) Tal Farlow had a TV Gig showing off the power of color tv's. They wanted him to play a red guitar. It had to be Red. He didn't own a red guitar and so his only immediate course of action was to buy a red guitar that wasn't a gibson for the show. He calls up Gibson explains the situation. The Gibson Rep proceeds to pull a guitar off the production line has it painted red...Then... Then personally flies himself and the guitar to TF so that he could have a red Gibson for the TV Show.

Seeded major league players all had one thing in common. They were part of the Gibson consortium. If you weren't save your pennies and get an es-165 like herb ellis did paying for it out of his own pocket and then earn your right. That's the way things ran. Washburn also made fine jazz guitars But if you stack the value of a vintage washburn jazz guitar against it's nearest Gibson equivalent it's value is fractional.

So getting back to my samick jazz guitar. I'm gigging in a trad jazz band and playing at places where it's nothing more than background music. No one is a jazz devote, they just feel they need to listen to jazz in an affluent setting. We're just window dressing. It was billed as a jazz jam yet it was very rare that they actually would have players step up from the audience. One time someone actually did. He's in his mid sixties and pulls out this Gibson L5. I have the pretty guitar but he has the expensive guitar. We talk after the performance and I'm drooling over his guitar. He's a brain surgeon. A brain surgeon with a 1948 Gibson L5 which today has a street value of $10,000. If it were me that guitar would never leave the house. Many "casual" collectors of jazz guitar who also make playing jazz guitar for a living like.... Rich Severson. Severson has many expensive guitars in his collection while not being a wealthy man. He takes the workhorse to the gig and he leaves the expensive stuff at home.


So my advice to anyone including a future self is... capitalize on your skills when you don't have the capital to chase your whims.

As far as the evil dentist stuff. Nope Dentists and dental offices need money to stay in business. Just like anyone else. If I were passing out evil notes it would be to the thugs who took a crowbar to my face many years ago when I was a gigging blues man. Gotta live the blues to play it. At that point I decided I neither wanted to live the blues life style nor play the blues. I told that story a long time back in this same forum.

[bharris22]

Interesting thoughts, Tapper - thanks for sharing.

Regarding your quest for a jazz box, I also have a Godin Multiac jazz, which I love. I wanted a true archtop, though, and ultimately purchased an Eastman AR-372CE (https://www.eastmanguitars.com/archtops-ar372ce-sb/) - basically, a Chinese-made ES-175 clone - like you, I love the sound and look of that ES-175, both from my jazz listening and my Steve Howe worshipping. I bought it new a couple of months ago for $900 at a local store, and I cannot believe the sound, fit and finish on this guitar. I feel like I bought a much more expensive guitar (I know that Rich Severson plays these, too). Just something to consider for others who may be looking for a quality jazz box.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

... a couple of the Xiangqi ('Chinese Chess') guitars have arrived:

[tapper mike]

Interesting...

I was looking at some "less expensive" Gibson hollow body (jazz) guitars with only one p90 in the center position.

When jazz guitarists want a one pup guitar it's in the neck position. When rock/metal players want the same thing... it's in the bridge position.

How are you liking the tone?

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

the pickups sound good, especially with the lightweight bodies. the trebles are not extreme, but the overall sound is about what i was hoping for with this setup.

these P90s definitely impart that distinct sound that the 'humbucker sized P90s' don't quite attain. those 'humbucker-sized P90s' have their own sound, which is kind of P90-ish, but it's not quite there like an actual P90. there's nothing like a P90. ymmv

be that as it may, it's going to sound great with a joyo sweet baby pedal.

the paulownia might be too soft. a fixed bridge might be a better design with this wood. live and learn.

[tapper mike]

Interesting thoughts, Tapper - thanks for sharing.

Regarding your quest for a jazz box, I also have a Godin Multiac jazz, which I love. I wanted a true archtop, though, and ultimately purchased an Eastman AR-372CE (https://www.eastmanguitars.com/archtops-ar372ce-sb/) - basically, a Chinese-made ES-175 clone - like you, I love the sound and look of that ES-175, both from my jazz listening and my Steve Howe worshipping. I bought it new a couple of months ago for $900 at a local store, and I cannot believe the sound, fit and finish on this guitar. I feel like I bought a much more expensive guitar (I know that Rich Severson plays these, too). Just something to consider for others who may be looking for a quality jazz box.

It's one of those things about time and technology. What used to require extremely skilled dedicated labor and time is now accomplished through robotics and incentive. Eastman and Matt Raines have figured out who and how to incentivize quality in China. Many others (samick, gibson, fender) didn't. I too admire the ar series from Eastman as well as many of their other products.

A funny thing about Eastman... When they started producing the Airline series I was baffled by it. They took the cheap reject guitars of the 50's and 60's (Harmony, Kay etc) and made them 1000 percent better while still maintaining the character of the tone and styling. I remember those guitars as those were the first electric guitars I actually saw in person growing up in a military family at near poverty level back in the 60's. They were always junky. Cheap tuners that wouldn't turn properly or stay in tune, improperly mounted so they'd wiggle. Cheap plastic nut that would always need to be replaced, uneven frets with sharp edges. Unable to properly adjust the bridge for proper intonation. Most didn't have truss rods. Unpotted pickups with bad wiring. The list went on and on. Today's Eastman Airline models capture all the quirky tonal qualities of the originals without all the issues that the original models had.

[PurpleCatfishBettie]

going to have to look at eastwood airline... wait is it eastwood or eastman?

[tapper mike]

the pickups sound good, especially with the lightweight bodies. the trebles are not extreme, but the overall sound is about what i was hoping for with this setup.

these P90s definitely impart that distinct sound that the 'humbucker sized P90s' don't quite attain. those 'humbucker-sized P90s' have their own sound, which is kind of P90-ish, but it's not quite there like an actual P90. there's nothing like a P90. ymmv

Yeah I'm always on the fence with P90's and imitators.

[Uncle E]

Back to Carvin, they ARE a custom guitar. You pick the wood, the pickups, the hardware, the colors, etc. Mostly (unless you go crazy with the eye-candy) they are WAY under market price for lesser gods. I know, I'm trying to get rid of some of those.

Yes, custom guitars that actually hold their value. Try reselling a custom guitar from a luthier. Unless that luthier used well-known parts (Warmoth, USA Custom Guitars, etc.), it's going to be tough.

Did you see the Carvin extended scale length and multi-scale guitars? I've always been after that kind of bell-like, piano tone that bass players are into, except for guitar, and I think an extended scale length might be the thing I've been missing. I'm thinking of getting a Warmoth baritone conversion neck for my Telecaster.

[Uncle E]

the pickups sound good, especially with the lightweight bodies. the trebles are not extreme, but the overall sound is about what i was hoping for with this setup.

Congrats! I'm glad to see everything worked out in the end! They look amazing!

these P90s definitely impart that distinct sound that the 'humbucker sized P90s' don't quite attain. those 'humbucker-sized P90s' have their own sound, which is kind of P90-ish, but it's not quite there like an actual P90. there's nothing like a P90. ymmv

Did you see those new Mojotone hum canceling P90's? They're supposed to be legit. The Seymour Duncan stacked P90 doesn't sound legit. The Kent Armstrong Stealth P90 does sound like a proper P90, though a bit clinical sounding. We're building a triple P90 strat with a red curly maple top (Hink would love it) using Dimarzio Soapbars, I'll let you know how that turns out.

the paulownia might be too soft. a fixed bridge might be a better design with this wood. live and learn.

Tele guys seem to be in to paulownia. If you're worried about the wood giving in, you could simply block the trems.

[incubus]

Back to Carvin, they ARE a custom guitar. You pick the wood, the pickups, the hardware, the colors, etc. Mostly (unless you go crazy with the eye-candy) they are WAY under market price for lesser gods. I know, I'm trying to get rid of some of those.

Yes, custom guitars that actually hold their value. Try reselling a custom guitar from a luthier. Unless that luthier used well-known parts (Warmoth, USA Custom Guitars, etc.), it's going to be tough.

Did you see the Carvin extended scale length and multi-scale guitars? I've always been after that kind of bell-like, piano tone that bass players are into, except for guitar, and I think an extended scale length might be the thing I've been missing. I'm thinking of getting a Warmoth baritone conversion neck for my Telecaster.

Good to see you back!!!!!