Plugin Alliance - Black Box Analog Design HG-2

[JohnnyA]

Saturn can't do tube drive in series (yes I know you can just use 2 instance).

Adding algorithms in series is unfortunately impossible. It would be cool if you could add two different algorithms in series on the same frequency range in Saturn.

FXpansion Maul can put all 3 operators in series but that mode makes them all fullband operators (you cannot split the signal to only process certain parts with each algorithm).

Decapitator and VSM-3 cannot do series either.

So the only one that comes close to doing proper series is Saturn. They'd just need to add the ability to split any of the 4 bands into having two algorithms on that band, which you can then set to serial or parallel mix mode. FabFilter are great at taking feature requests seriously, so you may want to send them an email about this idea!

Alternatively, just keep using 2 instances. That's what I do if I ever need to do things in series.

Saturn gets used often here but I never found the tube option sounds all that good. If you want to destroy audio/sound design HG-2 isn't going to make anyone happy.

That's why I have selected 4 plugins (listed above). Saturn can still do very good tube saturation (especially when you use the built-in per band EQ to shape the tone of the saturation to get exactly what you want, and use multiple bands to ensure that you get the drive where you want it without any mud), but yes, where Saturn & Maul mainly excel is at their sheer sound design possibilities. I use VSM-3 or Decapitator if "highest-end master bus saturation to finish off a mix" is the goal.

HG-2 overlaps a lot with VSM-3 in that regard. They both do that "gentle finishing saturation" sound. HG-2 has a gentler, higher-class sound. VSM-3 has much more control and clarity/sharpness. You cannot go wrong with either of them. And I often prefer VSM-3 due to its great controls (mid-side, only processing certain frequency ranges, etc).

VSM-3 has non-standard names, but they're as follows in VSM-3 compared to HG-2:
2nd Harmonic FET Crusher = Triode Tube
3rd Harmonic Zener Blender = Pentode Tube

However, the tube type has nothing to do with what harmonics are generated. Pentode and Triode simply refers to how many physical, electrical connectors are on each tube type. Both types of tubes generate both even and odd harmonics, and it's up to the circuit to emphasize the kind they want. In the HG-2, Triode generates odd harmonics and in VSM-3 the "Triode" generates even harmonics. In the HG-2, Pentode generates even harmonics and in the VSM-3 the "Pentode" generates odd harmonics.

So really, the mapping is like this when you compare:
Even Harmonics (warmth) = "2nd Harmonic FET Crusher" in VSM-3, and "Pentode" in HG-2.
Odd Harmonics (bite) = "3rd Harmonic Zener Blende" in VSM-3, and "Triode" in HG-2.

However, note that VSM-3 is actually a solid-state design and HG-2 is a tube design. So this comparison is only a guideline.

In VSM-3, you would use the "Shape" knob to lowpass the saturation, and mid-side mode to ensure that you only saturate the mid-bass and only saturate the high-sides. That'll get you a very nice stereo depth widening and bass saturation for your final mix. If I want air, like you spoke about, then I finish off with Eiosis AirEQ, which has an incredibly smooth Air algorithm. Another great one is Maag from Plugin Alliance with its famous Air band.

[macmuse]

I was thinking about HG-2 but I do have Saturn and Decapitator. I am more interested in the "highest end master bus clarity" to quote above. VSM-3 is on sale right now as well, so wondered how those of you who have used it feel compared to Saturn and Decapitator for that need. I also use most of the time VCC and VTM, (also own MH Character, and Ozone for final) so I also don't want to overdo it. Thank you.

[Daimonicon]

Tried it yesterday and yes this is the saturation plugin for me. I think I have tried all that exist and none of them pleased me enough for open my wallet. It makes a wonder on snares, kicks, drum busses and bass. I will purchase it but I will wait until it becomes a weekend sale on it cheap or if somebody here on kvr is willing to sell it cheap eventually that happens to all plugins.

[JohnnyA]

VSM-3 is on sale right now as well, so wondered how those of you who have used it feel compared to Saturn and Decapitator for master bus clarity. I also use most of the time VCC and VTM, (also own MH Character, and Ozone for final) so I also don't want to overdo it. Thank you.

Roughly speaking, it can be said like this:

HG-2: Gentle, warm sound. Great for a bass that sounds like it's playing through silk. It has a very unique sound. Kind of like it's not distorting at all. Just gets warmer. Like adding warm noise to the mix. It'd be really great for acoustic, "unplugged" music / acoustic "one voice and one guitar" singer-songerwriter music. As for controls, this plugin is basically a two-knob plugin: "More/less even order harmonics" and "more/less odd order harmonics". Since this plugin tends to have a deeper, darker sound, it also has a built-in air feature to add some brightness, called the Air knob, and it sounds great.

VSM-3: Clear sound. Great bite and character. It's incredible at warming up the bass; you can crank up the bass distortion and use the "shape" (filter) to take away all the highs to give yourself a thick sub-bass layer of growl underneath your real bass. And it's often the better of the two when it comes to livening up the high end via saturation. With VSM-3 you can filter in exactly the frequency range you want to affect (like just the high end), set it to side-only (so you don't affect the mono part of the mix), and crank up some great sparkle which adds width and presence to the mix without sounding EQ'd, and then you just play with the "shape" (lowcut filter on the distortion) to avoid any harshness at all, and lastly mix it in with the THD Mix (distortion amount mixer).

Saturn: I use it mostly as a mixing plugin, for radical toneshaping. It's the best of them all when it comes to that, due to the ability to have 6 bands with different algorithms per distortion band, and a 4-knob EQ per band, and powerful modulation, which means that you can coax out any sound. But I don't use Saturn for the final "hi-fi master" polish. It's possible to do it, but I find that the hardware-modeled plugins are much better at that type of finalizing work.

Decapitator: It's very good, although it tends to distort harsher than VSM-3 and HG-2. But it's still a very good plugin. One of my favorite ways to add air to a track is still to set Decapitator to mode N (Neve 1057), Drive 7, Tone at 100% bright, and Mix set to 50%. The idea is to crank the plugin so that it generates super high frequency fizz (the Neve algorithm is the fizziest of all the Decapitator algorithms), and to then mix it in gently (start at 50% and go higher if needed). This trick gives you a ridiculously beautiful, gently crackling distortion that sounds insanely gorgeous on almost any source and breathes fresh air and life into everything it touches. It sounds completely different from an EQ or a harmonic exciter, and it really opens up the sound in a natural way. Lower or raise drive to taste.

Anyway, I suggest that you download the free 14 day trial and listen to both VSM-3 and HG-2 on your own material, to feel how the knobs react and what results you get. My recommendation would be VSM-3 if you're after flexibility, clarity and great sound, or HG-2 if you're after incredible warmth for your music (especially incredible for acoustic music).

I bought VSM-3 twice, at $299 for UAD, and $299 for Native after I sold my UAD. It's that good. It's a no-brainer at the current $129 sale!

That being said, the one that's the most different from what you already own is HG-2. With HG-2 you'll add a "super transparent, warm fuzz" tool to your toolbox, which sounds kind of like mixing in warm noise into the mix, instead of mixing in distortion. With VSM-3 you'll instead get what's basically a higher-quality Decapitator, with very powerful mid-side mode and a great sound. That's why I say you should download the 14-day trials of both VSM-3 and HG-2, to decide for yourself whether you want the fuzzy/noisy warmth HG-2 generates, or if you want the clarity that VSM-3 generates. The VSM-3 with its mid-side flexibility is my favorite tool for opening up a dull mix.

[kj.metissage]

Decapitator and VSM-3 cannot do series either.

The VSM-3 has a "Serial" mode in the "THD Mixer" section.

So it can do series : 2nd Harmonic FET Crusher followed by 3rd Harmonic Zener Blender.

[JohnnyA]

Decapitator and VSM-3 cannot do series either.

The VSM-3 has a "Serial" mode in the "THD Mixer" section.

So it can do series : 2nd Harmonic FET Crusher followed by 3rd Harmonic Zener Blender.

Yes but those are different algorithms, so you aren't able to put two of the same algorithm in series, which is what we're talking about. If you want two of the FET Crushers in series, you need another instance. Same with Saturn. Etc.

It would be really great if Saturn could add a 2nd algorithm to each band, and set that to parallel or serial operation. Then you could basically expand the sonic palette by 400%. Imagine setting up a bass band that does "Warm Tube -> series -> Heavy Saturation", all in a single instance, without needing two instances of Saturn. That would be nuts.

I don't have the energy to talk to FabFilter about this idea, but they're very responsive to emails if someone wants to suggest it. Although they will possibly say no because it would double the plugin's latency, since it'd have to process the audio on the 1st layer and then process it again on the 2nd (series) layer.

[kj.metissage]

Oh I see, my bad then.

[nordickvr]

@JohnnyA
Thank you for those info, that is pretty informative!
That is really just me, but I really liked what HG-2 brang to the tracks I've put it on.
It truelly sounds pretty good.
Agree, VSM-3 is an awesome tool.
Those are the two I would choose out of your list personnaly.

[incubus]

I want to demo it, but I feel I personally can get way more out of the "vertigo" since I can't stand simply adding distortion.

The saturation thing is .... saturated to me.

Saturn was terrific. I think it was one of the ones I sold when I thought I was going to be RE fo' life Damn, now I'm thinking about it again.....

[MogwaiBoy]

I bought VSM-3 today for $39. I couldn't pass it up. And it sounds blinkin' fantastic. Mid/side operation opens up some great master bus possiblities. I tried the "HiFi Your Mix" preset on a mastering session, dailed it back to more subtle and man what a difference in depth/shimmer.

HG-2 looks awesome, I must resist....

[djscorb]

39 sheets? Wow, how did you manage that? I was pleased to get it for under $100!

Cheers

Scorb

[bmanic]

He probably used a voucher.

[JohnnyA]

39 sheets? Wow, how did you manage that? I was pleased to get it for under $100!

Cheers

Scorb

VSM-3 + Elysia bundle = $129 currently. If you own one of them, the bundle is $64.5 for you.

Customers who own a lot of their plugins got vouchers in the $25-75 range. So $64.5 - $25 = $39.

That's how he did it. And what a great deal he got! But VSM-3 is worth every dollar of the $598 I have paid for it when I bought it twice for both UAD and Native. And I have zero regrets. This plugin is absolutely essential. The mid-side and frequency range selection is what makes it so incredibly powerful.

You could do mid-side and frequency range with HG-2 too if you use 3rd party plugins. The free (and AWESOME) Voxengo MSED (Mid-Side Encoder Decoder) lets you split a L/R stereo signal into M/S instead. Then route the Side to a mono bus, run HG-2 on that buss, then route it back to another bus that merges the original M and the processed S, via Voxengo MSED again. But that's a huge hassle.

I wish Plugin Alliance had just freaking put a "mid/side/both" mode selector in the HG-2 GUI. Developers need to stop cloning the hardware's limitations, dammit! We're being artificially limited by sticking with the hardware limitations even in plugin-land for no good reason. Having a HG-2 with mid-side would let you do things like only saturate/excite the stereo sides, just like you can do in VSM-3, and that ability is a massive tool to have. Same with VSM-3's ability to solo just the distortion/saturation to listen to only the noise you're adding, to be able to shape that perfectly before mixing it into the sound. Why is that not in HG-2, a plugin released in the year 2017? And where is the ability to affect only a certain frequency range with the saturation? And where's the automatic gain compensation to avoid "louder = better" when you raise the saturation? There's a lot that's annoying with HG-2's controls. Oh well, at least the sound is great.

For those reasons and many others, VSM-3 is often the more useful of the two if you're aiming to do sound design and sculpting. With VSM-3, you get fast, great-sounding results with a huge sound palette and the ability to tweak the saturation to perfection. With HG-2 you get tube warmth which is kind of like compression with a bit of warm noise. It'd be an incredible purchase for people who work with acoustic/unplugged singers with guitars, because its gentleness is great there.

PS: For people who are demoing VSM-3 and don't yet understand its interface, you should start with the "HiFi Your Mix" preset to get a good starting point, and then just tweak. And when you're comparing it to HG-2, remember to try VSM-3 in "L/R" stereo mode instead of just Mid or just Side (the "Hifi Your Mix" defaults to bass warming the mid and exciting the highs in the side), since the HG-2 only does L/R stereo. So to get the "whole mix affected" tone of HG-2 you should be in VSM-3's L/R mode. And be sure to try switching VSM-3 between the "Soft" and "Hard" choice since HG-2 is closer to VSM-3's "Soft" setting. I also recommend that you put a full stereo mix on 2 separate tracks, put an instance of VSM on one and HG2 on the other, and then use your "Solo Selection" feature in your DAW to play both tracks at the same location in a loop and switch between them as you tweak. But you're probably just going to end up buying both HG-2 and VSM-3, because they're both industry-leaders for the different tones they bring.

[bmanic]

In Reaper this is a lot easier to do though. You just insert two instances of HG-2. One that has i/o channel 1 selected and one that has i/o channel 2 selected. Then just insert 1 instance of MSED before these two, set it to "ENCODE" mode. Then insert another MSED instance after these two HG-2 instances and set it to "DECODE" mode. Done.

[JohnnyA]

In Reaper this is a lot easier to do though. You just insert two instances of HG-2. One that has i/o channel 1 selected and one that has i/o channel 2 selected. Then just insert 1 instance of MSED before these two, set it to "ENCODE" mode. Then insert another MSED instance after these two HG-2 instances and set it to "DECODE" mode. Done.

Damn that's cool. So you mean you have a stereo track and can tell every plugin on that track to only receive either the left or right channel (and for Reaper to simply pass-through the other channel unaffected)? Damn, that's a great solution which lets you keep it all on one track, and would make me use MSED even more. I really wish Logic had that feature (and a M/S encoder/decoder built-in to complete the feature).