MTurboReverb preset making action, let's make the ultimate reverb! ;)

[spencerlee]

Do you mean fitting it in technically or writing the text.

[MeldaProduction]

Tthat too, but mainly making people write a meaningful text .

[spencerlee]

It just needs some sort of bullet list formula.
Maybe.
1. What its called and who created it.
2. How much CPU it takes Lite, Meadium , Heavy.
3. How many ERs
4. How Many LRs
5. Reverb Family. Tick one. Room Hall Plate etc.
6. Best Length.
7. What it sounds best on.

Creators should modify this list till we get what is necessary to describe the preset.

[MeldaProduction]

Well, to be honest, I don't think this information is necessary.

Who made it, sure, but most people won't care anyways. How CPU is relative and is relative to settings, and we can measure it on our own. ERs and LRs are irrelevant, it only matters how it sounds. And if you need to know, you can just check, it's one click away . Best length is and settings are the defaults, so you already have that.
Reverb family - that's a tricky one. Mostly it will be in the name anyways. But in general it's often hard to classify to be honest. The difference between halls, chambers and often even plates is so sporadic...

What would be useful is "what it sounds best on", but that can depend on the settings of the active preset itself, "feel" of the actual person using it, and the creator may not even know that. Scratch that, he will NOT know that. Because only time will tell what people will be using it on...

So as you can see, despite it would be supercool to say "this is for drums, it's hall blabla", it would be like saying that hiphop sucks and death metal is the ultimate music style .

[spencerlee]

But you have to have a starting point. Labels are very important and most people do not delve into presets and just read what it is for and what it does and they believe it.
The old DX7 argument. Nobody made presets. Just used the factory and went by the description.
I even use something because of what it is called and how it is described.
We don't have the time to investigate for ourselves usually.
If some body says that the reverb preset is best used on frogs and they must be dancing backwards towards christmas, that is what most people will use it for.

[spencerlee]

Who made the preset is important. Because if you stumble across a preset made by Roger Ramjet that is amazing. You will look for all the other presets made by Roger Ramjet because you now know what his standard is.
Similarly if you come across a preset by Bert Butcher and it sucks, you will not even look at any of his other presets.
Human nature.
I want to know CPU because if I have very little CPU left I will not touch a preset if it is labeled High CPU.
You will know that Multi ER and LR presets will sound thicker than single ER LR preset and maybe you want a simple reverb and not something that features like the Multi.

I have used the 224 and the 480 since they were invented and I have never heard all the presets. I went by the names and the info like everybody did.

[XComposer]

I am writing here just because Chandlerhimself asked about our preferences, what kind of presets we would need or want. I apologize for my late reply, but it was not possible to write earlier.

I am not at all an expert about reverbs (very far from that), but I am just trying to answer this question for my own personal case.

My own needs in a reverb are probably different from those of many of the other users: for example, I never use drums, amplified voice, electric guitars or basses; I avoid regular rhythms; my chords are usually dissonant and outside any tonality or key; normally, I have to do with poor live recordings of classical chamber music that I am trying to improve (often solo instruments), or in other circumstances I have to apply a reverb to purely electronic contemporary classical music composed directly on a computer, often of the "musique concrète" genre that consists mainly of natural sounds, ambient sounds, non-amplified voices and instrumental sound samples from classical or ethnic instruments that undergo various re-elaborations and modifications.

I am aware that all this can influence my needs and tastes also with regard to a reverb. For example, automating the spatialization without clicks (pan and, moreover, a realistic feeling of distance) is often important to me, in order to give the illusion of quickly moving sound sources.

I use long tails much more than short reflections, but I like realistic long tails, not "effects". I like the reverb tails when they are not completely static, but I am looking for very, very subtle changes within them, the kind of changes you are not aware of, while listening, almost imperceptible, and not periodic (not like a regular vibrato, so to speak). I detest modulations when they are evident or regular. I often like the reverb to be rich in the upper frequencies. And I like when a reverb lets you perceive all the tiny details of the original sound, also when the reverb itself is evident.

I chose five examples of reverbs of the kind that I use most often. They are all of the "hall" kind, but completely different from each other. They do not respond to all the features I described, but I really made my best to choose them (I have a lot to learn). Besides, I am sure that some of you will not like them, but we are all very different.

The first three are made with 2C Audio B2, the fourth is made with FabFilter Pro-R and the fifth with Liquidsonics Reverberate 2 (these are my favorite reverbs at the moment, probably together with Aether).

The third preset is probably the one I like the least (its modulation is too evident).

I tested them on five audio samples: a 10 ms white noise impulse, a single note sung by a boy, my own voice singing vowels (poorly) as a quick test, a single stopped note made on a Persian plucked instrument (the santur) and a very short passage on a piano.

Each series starts with the dry original audio sample, then you hear the five examples.

The second and third presets do not work well at all on the piano passage, I would not use them on a piano sound, but I included them also there for uniformity.

The mixes are exaggerated (too wet) in order to let you hear the reverb well. All the audios are normalized.

To answer Chandlerhimself's question, these are the kind of presets I would be happy to find, especially if pan and moreover distance can be automated with them.

(Sorry for the long post…)

Impulse series:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/811 ... mpulse.wav

Boy series:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/811 ... 02_Boy.wav

Male voice sung vowels series:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/811 ... vowels.wav

Plucked and stopped note series:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/811 ... lucked.wav

Piano passage series:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/811 ... _Piano.wav

[caulixtla]

What would be useful is "what it sounds best on", but that can depend on the settings of the active preset itself, "feel" of the actual person using it, and the creator may not even know that. Scratch that, he will NOT know that. Because only time will tell what people will be using it on...

Another thing to keep in mind is that an active preset can sound best on anything, as long as the knobs set correctly for the sound. With MTurboReverb, a “preset” is actually what other reverbs call an “algorithm.”

Now, I can not speak on behalf of other algorithm designers, but of the five algorithms I am submitting for MTurboReverb, two of them are general purpose algorithms which can be adjusted to sound good on anything, two of them are special purpose algorithms: One (non-linear, what was commonly called “gate reverb” in the 1980s) sounds best on drums, and the other (“Solstice Verb”) sounds best making ambient soundscapes. The final one is a proof of concept that a 10-character long topology (namely “p[#[v;9a]]”) can make for a usable reverb.

Indeed, I have a modified version of Cookies N Milk where it’s one algorithm with three presets, where the only thing different between the presets is how the knobs are set:

http://caulixtla.com/Easy-CookiesNMilk-2.0.03.zip

One of the presets works nicely with drums; another with piano, synths, or orchestral instruments; and the third preset can make for some very long ambient soundscapes. While this algorithm has seven room types, each with its own sound, I only use one of the room types in the three presets.

It is very much possible to make an entire album using only a single MTurboReverb active preset for all of the reverb in all of the songs on the album. Indeed, I currently am doing something similar with the Valhalla Vintage Verb algorithms, where my last album by and large used the “Smooth Random” algorithm and the album I currently am working on is using the “Smooth Room” algorithm. My next album may end up using a single MTurboReverb active preset for the entire album.

[spencerlee]

Hey guys
My "Magic Drum Mikes" preset.
You have control over Close, Medium and Distant mike simulations.
Have a play.
Spencer

Magic Drum Mikes.mpresets.zip

[Batty]

These verbs should not be missing in MTurboReverb:

EMT 140 plate
Lexicon 480 and 224 (Rooms and Large Halls mostly)
Bricasti (see last link below)
Will there be spring reverbs?

some interesting infos are in here:
http://getthatprosound.com/the-10-best- ... the-world/

Some of these seam to be interesting to have:
http://www.uaudio.com/review/lexicon-224?p=6

Scroll down for snippets of brilliant bricasti reverbs for using as examples:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-en ... hoooo.html
These and great info all over the place. Just to make sure the best reverb (Melda's) won't miss out on these I hope this helps a little. It's great to see, what you did so far

Sadly I won't be able to testdrive MTurboReverb until it officially comes out.
But at least it'll be the really best. Hehe.

Oh, right...found some Bricasti impulses...I dunno if they could help in any way,
but I'll post the link just in case:
http://signaltonoize.com/?p=667

And an example video Bricasti's:

[caulixtla]

Lexicon 480 and 224 (Rooms and Large Halls mostly)

I’ve been looking at how to make a 224-like reverb with MTurboReverb: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=216

The differences between MTurboReverb and a “figure 8 loop” of nested allpasses as used in a Lexicon are:

• A Lexicon handles a stereo signal differently (you tap at different points in a “stfb” figure-8 loop to get the stereo outputs in a classic Lexicon, but MTurboReverb has a reverb tank for each channel where the signal is put in other channels via “swap”)
• To get a figure-8 to sound good, the delay amounts for all of the allpasses really have to be tuned by hand. MTurboReverb does allow the delay constants to be tuned by hand, but it makes for a rather ugly looking long topology. MTurboReverb also has a tool which tries to find a random seed which sounds good, but I haven’t been able to get a good sounding Lexicon 224 style tank from it so far — but, then again, I haven’t tried with the updated seed finder yet.
• MTurboReverb can not, as far as I know, do the “granular” chopping up of signals in a delay line which the Lexicon “Random Hall” algorithm uses.

That said, I am getting good results with this topology:

stfb[#[fl;fh;d;l($1);b[a];b[an[v($2);a]];l($1);b[swap];b[an[an[a]]]]]

Do not, repeat, do not make $1 (parameter 1) have a value greater than 0, otherwise a runaway feedback can damage your ears. $1 is best with a value between -1 and 0; it helps cut short the reverb.

$2 (parameter 2) determines the amount of modulation to have in the tank. It should be between 0.001 and 1.

This algorithm is sensitive to the seed being used, with many seeds sounding bad. I get good results with seed 1855009610, size 19%, complexity 6. It can be downloaded here: http://caulixtla.com/Circle8-2017-02-11.zip To load in MTurboReverb, expand the .zip file (double click on it in Windows), then, in MTurboReverb:

1) Click on the preset button at the top

2) Click on import

3) Find the file “Circle8-2017-02-11” and double click on it

4) Click on “Add” or “Replace” if prompted to do so

Bricasti (see last link below)

Melda is working on an algorithm based on the sound of the Bricasti. It’s included with newer betas of MTurboReverb.

Will there be spring reverbs?

Yes: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=165

[Antisha]

Copying designs from the past is hard work, and frustrating, because people always compare and say, that's not exactly the same, that's not it - even if it sounds great. I believe we should inspire from the great designs from the past, not copy them, but go ahead, creating new creative stuff... If designers of Lexicon, Bricasti etc. had this new technology, and concept like MTurboRev, they would surely make it different.
I like Melda's Reverbs more than Lexicon and Bricasti (which are great, of course), it's a matter of taste, style, philosophy... And there are already very good copies of old gear, eg. Steven Slate is obsessed with emulating classic gear designs, and AFAIK, he's doing it well...

[Batty]

Caulixtla: Thanks for these indepth infos .
Sadly I can't test anything, having no MTurboReverb...yet.
But its great to read about the progress. Can't wait until MTR comes out.
Your 224 sounds very nice. I wish I could hear it on a single snarehit to compare.
Is it possible to let certain frequencies reverberate longer than others?
Hm just a thought: the granularity...couldn't it be fed by MMultibandGranular?

Antisha: I'm not really going for the "Vintage" - but Bricasti and Lexicon are names for a reason.
I also followed the Valhalla reverbs and was able to confirm the clarity thing that it was hyped for. But some people say that even Valhalla's Reverbers don't reach the older Lexicon and even more so the Bricasti in clarity and subtleness in a mix. That was what I found out on the internet essentially in the last 3 years during my research about reverbs/halls (plugins). And I agree with you: MConvolution is gorgius already indeed. I just miss tweakability there a lot.

What I wanna reach in my mixes is:
"Depth and space without the feeling of overprocessedness"
"Reverbs should slip into the mix easily without clogging it"
"Keeping musicality while tweaking the knobs"
"Lush, full and wide reverberation in all frequencies equally (no thinness, no harshness or damp)
and a tweakable extra eq for forming the Reverb/hall tail only"
"a glass clear and licked-clean texture in the reverb tail for clarity in the mix"
and also artificial reverbs, if they help the mix/track.

[magicmusic]

the best sounding reverb with good surround room sound that i think rear speaker work too is the song take five from dave brubeck. on spotify can hear for free in good sound quality. youtube versions sound bad. it use drums and very few instruments and there can not hear any ugly snare or basedrum reverb tail, but the drums are not dry record. when at 40 sec the lead sax play it sound full and in front. maybe somebody find good too or know how can create such a reverb or maybe because the music have less dense and the reverb can hear, a impulse or early reflections can create out of it ?


On 2 min 45 can hear some snar shot and after it silence, so the reverb tail can hear. it is around 2 sec reverb

[onerob]

the best sounding reverb with good surround room sound that i think rear speaker work too is the song take five from dave brubeck.

At one point I was thinking of creating a preset that I might have called Blue-Note or Jazz Session. I was guessing that some of those classic 50s/60s recordings had a vibe to them that was probably a combination of plate reverb plus mic leakage. MTR would be a good plugin to try and reproduce that ambience.