Hoalee fekk.Architeuthis wrote:Chaos-based harmonic locking and pitch-following?
Uh, ya.
I mean, the trouble I go to, to create shit like that...
edit:
lol, that sounds funny.
To be clear: I love it.
working on a tonal chaos generator vst
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- KVRAF
- 4321 posts since 26 Jun, 2004
Uh, ya.
I mean, the trouble I go to, to create shit like that...
edit:
lol, that sounds funny.
To be clear: I love it.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
I've been making the mistake of thinking something will take a day and then it ends up taking a week. I said the oscilloscope would be released by Feb 1st, and now it's the 8th. There's a few more features the scope needs and development milestones for the framework of the plugins. I'll make a new prediction that on May 1st I will have a product that allows you to get most of the sounds I've been posting.
It's frustrating for me that I am getting these great sounds, yet I can hardly play with them due to lack of development. The demos I post now are far from demonstrating the musical potential. In my head I'm hearing the most badass screamy squelchy growly musical demos for Codename: Scream... can't wait to make those demos. I should make a demo where there's only one note being played the entire time just to prove a point, let the rhythm and frequency sweeps do all the talking. I'll be taking inspiration from Doom.
I'm using this thread to garner a small bit of popularity before the first product release. On Feb 14 this thread will be half a year old, ah sh**... maybe I started it too soon.
It's frustrating for me that I am getting these great sounds, yet I can hardly play with them due to lack of development. The demos I post now are far from demonstrating the musical potential. In my head I'm hearing the most badass screamy squelchy growly musical demos for Codename: Scream... can't wait to make those demos. I should make a demo where there's only one note being played the entire time just to prove a point, let the rhythm and frequency sweeps do all the talking. I'll be taking inspiration from Doom.
I'm using this thread to garner a small bit of popularity before the first product release. On Feb 14 this thread will be half a year old, ah sh**... maybe I started it too soon.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
I'm not sure how chaos relates to fractal synthesis... maybe it's possible to design a chaotic system with the intent of fractal waveforms, not sure. But this point is the most important and it is why I am focusing on chaos: It is the only way to get results that are, what I call, "reactive": growls, screams, harmonic locking, glitchiness, etc.
People try to recreate these kinds of sounds with (insert digital synth here) and distortion fx; the result is either ugly-sounding or too tame. You have to cover that up with additional fx. It eventually sounds ok, sure, but it won't lead anywhere... I mean...
...synthesis techniques spawn musical genres: Awesome supersaws lead to awesome trance music, powerful vocal basses lead to awesome dubstep, and chaotic/reactive sound will lead to another genre of electronic music that will compete in badassness with death metal. The world has not had easy access to reactive sound. When that is remedied we will see a new wave of electronic music that incorporate this new-found sound. Edit: I think this new music will have psytrance influences but with more complex and modern rhythms found in dubstep/pop/breakbeat.
Synthesizers are starting to come out with filters (zero-delay, self-oscillating, etc) that can growl, but many of those are too tame and also rely on a distortion fx to add an edge; it doesn't sound right. Cytomic "The Drop" does it correctly with his filters. But we need more than filters.
I plan on creating a video detailing all of this, showing exactly why chaos synthesis is something that digital synths have been missing all these years. I predict that, at some point, you won't be able to buy a synth without some chaos features. Analog synths have easy access to chaos (don't confuse this with randomness!). Almost no digital synths have chaos. And you wonder why analog sounds better than digital... that's why... that's my theory.
I am making some grandiose claims... yes... but I will stand by my predictions for years to come.
People try to recreate these kinds of sounds with (insert digital synth here) and distortion fx; the result is either ugly-sounding or too tame. You have to cover that up with additional fx. It eventually sounds ok, sure, but it won't lead anywhere... I mean...
...synthesis techniques spawn musical genres: Awesome supersaws lead to awesome trance music, powerful vocal basses lead to awesome dubstep, and chaotic/reactive sound will lead to another genre of electronic music that will compete in badassness with death metal. The world has not had easy access to reactive sound. When that is remedied we will see a new wave of electronic music that incorporate this new-found sound. Edit: I think this new music will have psytrance influences but with more complex and modern rhythms found in dubstep/pop/breakbeat.
Synthesizers are starting to come out with filters (zero-delay, self-oscillating, etc) that can growl, but many of those are too tame and also rely on a distortion fx to add an edge; it doesn't sound right. Cytomic "The Drop" does it correctly with his filters. But we need more than filters.
I plan on creating a video detailing all of this, showing exactly why chaos synthesis is something that digital synths have been missing all these years. I predict that, at some point, you won't be able to buy a synth without some chaos features. Analog synths have easy access to chaos (don't confuse this with randomness!). Almost no digital synths have chaos. And you wonder why analog sounds better than digital... that's why... that's my theory.
I am making some grandiose claims... yes... but I will stand by my predictions for years to come.
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- Banned
- 12368 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
i realised a better expression of what i was saying was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSTNJKETsZI
note - this post has been edited. the first edition was the material above this point. i kind of like the fact that what i was going to say won't mean a thing to you, because of your adherence to your vision. but, as usual, i also feel there is truth in my words, so here they are, carefully copied to a safe location overnight in case they may ever do anyone any good. (the meaning of selecting "liquid eyeliner" probably takes a tab and a couple of extra decades to parse, but it's pertinent)
...........
i experienced a similar enthusiasm for physical modeling synthesis with the korg z1. i thought using julius smith's models was informative on a scale that redefined the users perception of sound. ..and like many people have had a general lifelong appreciation of audio synthesis for its semantic properties, to improve societal interaction and produce a more functional state. my experience on kvr is that outlook is shared by only a small portion of electronic musicians, eg. some other people could be said to be more concerned with the effect of timbres and are unconcerned with finer timbral discretions than say "smooth" or "rough" et c. it's a deep ocean with a lot of weird looking fish who aren't all wired the same way.
i agree and sympathise with your aspirations having held them myself and perhaps most of all appreciate someone who is passionate about a potential to improve culture. what you are saying is the way things should work. and thank you for sharing your vision of the future, it's nice to hear someone talk about music "as if it had social pertinence" around here. but it won't be like that at all, just cassette tapes of someone's aunty clipping her toenails.
............
anyway, i'm happy to get out of your way and let you make the best of the world you can. i hope it can be understood that a person who has walked a long road, may wish to share their perspective in case it contains any wisdom for the recipient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSTNJKETsZI
note - this post has been edited. the first edition was the material above this point. i kind of like the fact that what i was going to say won't mean a thing to you, because of your adherence to your vision. but, as usual, i also feel there is truth in my words, so here they are, carefully copied to a safe location overnight in case they may ever do anyone any good. (the meaning of selecting "liquid eyeliner" probably takes a tab and a couple of extra decades to parse, but it's pertinent)
...........
i experienced a similar enthusiasm for physical modeling synthesis with the korg z1. i thought using julius smith's models was informative on a scale that redefined the users perception of sound. ..and like many people have had a general lifelong appreciation of audio synthesis for its semantic properties, to improve societal interaction and produce a more functional state. my experience on kvr is that outlook is shared by only a small portion of electronic musicians, eg. some other people could be said to be more concerned with the effect of timbres and are unconcerned with finer timbral discretions than say "smooth" or "rough" et c. it's a deep ocean with a lot of weird looking fish who aren't all wired the same way.
i agree and sympathise with your aspirations having held them myself and perhaps most of all appreciate someone who is passionate about a potential to improve culture. what you are saying is the way things should work. and thank you for sharing your vision of the future, it's nice to hear someone talk about music "as if it had social pertinence" around here. but it won't be like that at all, just cassette tapes of someone's aunty clipping her toenails.
............
anyway, i'm happy to get out of your way and let you make the best of the world you can. i hope it can be understood that a person who has walked a long road, may wish to share their perspective in case it contains any wisdom for the recipient.
Last edited by xoxos on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
xoxos, don't spam my thread please, thank you.
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- KVRAF
- 4321 posts since 26 Jun, 2004
xoxos wrote: a person who has walked a long road, may wish to share their perspective in case it contains any wisdom for the recipient.
Architeuthis wrote:spam
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- Banned
- 12368 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
what a pileup highkoo when architeuthis responded, the post was just a link to liquid eyeliner.
just my perspective, but i was reluctant as i struggled between expressing what i felt was truth and being less than affirming. i'm alright with a mod deleting these couple of posts.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
Xoxos, I get what you're saying, my passion, my ideas, they could all just be mine and not have much weight in reality, but I'm banking on the fact that the type of sound I'm trying to create is one that is actually old, recognizable, and as ubiquitous as the supersaw. When you hear this kind of sound you immediately think "oh, that sounds analog!" The Drop creates this sound well. This is not some new thing that I hope will catch on. No, it has been "caught on" for years...kinda...
When I listen to dubstep I constantly hear synth voices that would have been better served by a chaos-based voice. It really feels to me like the composer wanted that sound but couldn't quite get there. This problem lead to the recognizable dubstep basses and leads. I am making a simple claim: If chaos-based synthesis was more widespread it would be a key part of dubstep, as well as sprinkled into other electronic music genres.
Actually, here's another fun claim: It sounds to me like best dubstep bases approach a fractal sound. Fractal sound synthesis will be important as well in the coming years (some digital synths are tapping into the idea of fractals with advanced/customizable hard sync).
When I listen to dubstep I constantly hear synth voices that would have been better served by a chaos-based voice. It really feels to me like the composer wanted that sound but couldn't quite get there. This problem lead to the recognizable dubstep basses and leads. I am making a simple claim: If chaos-based synthesis was more widespread it would be a key part of dubstep, as well as sprinkled into other electronic music genres.
Actually, here's another fun claim: It sounds to me like best dubstep bases approach a fractal sound. Fractal sound synthesis will be important as well in the coming years (some digital synths are tapping into the idea of fractals with advanced/customizable hard sync).
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- Banned
- 12368 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
my perspective so far is chaos oscillators feature flexible timbral generation easy to push into ..motile and caustic states which is intuitive and handy for synthesis across the board. if you like synthesisers, i can't see anyone not liking this technique. it's not difficult to locate regions for behaviours you want. there's a patch on black that sounds in a certain range like the arrow "boing" foley sound from old hanna barbera cartoons, so chaos oscillators work a generalised solution for various physical modeling effects. this is the first day i've used one in a daw. loads of fun. with two lfos as patch can sound like several layered sounds. complex timbres fast.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- Banned
- 12368 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
you may (or may not) also be surprised to learn,Architeuthis wrote:Fractal sound synthesis will be important as well in the coming years (some digital synths are tapping into the idea of fractals with advanced/customizable hard sync).
you're already there, bro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinsk ... Chaos_game
the sierpinski fractal can be produced by chaos.. on each iteration, select a vertex, move the point halfway towards it. after many iterations, the sierpinski fractal is apparent.
so other chaos oscillators, while using a different procedure than that used in creating fractal graphics, may produce the same result
wonderful thing about reality and nature i guess, integrity. wouldn't it be interesting if it turns out we can dump the lacunarity stuff from fractal methods and use chaos to get the same results.you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
Continuing to discover the principles behind growls and screams
http://www.elanhickler.com/transfer/Cha ... creams.mp3
Learned how to draw a heart with chaos (using triangle waves this time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wOxwNdj9FA
http://www.elanhickler.com/transfer/Cha ... creams.mp3
Learned how to draw a heart with chaos (using triangle waves this time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wOxwNdj9FA
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
Playing with the chaos generator some more and continuing to discover more analog-filter-style patches. Codename:Scream will be released with a healthy selection of unique analog filter emulations, and next to each one will be a picture of the resonance when overdriven, that's how distinct each filter/character will be. You want sawtooth resosance? Sure! Triangle-shaped resonance? No problem! Spikey shapes? Weird wavefolded like shapes, something just flat out strange? Yes and yes. Vanilla sinusoidal shapes? Boring, but fine, yes. That too. Try to tell the difference between two filters on any audio plugin just by looking at the waveform it produces. Yeah, good luck with that. Codename:Scream will be on another level. 
...i hope...
Edit: Demos of such claims will follow within a few months, hopefully sooner.
...i hope...
Edit: Demos of such claims will follow within a few months, hopefully sooner.
