Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

[AnX]

Two Observations:

- Im not sure VCO3 is supposed to modulate itself. Arturias minimoog does that too up to v1.6, but it was changed in V2 so that VCO3 would be excluded when Oscillator Modulation is enabled. If they did that because thats how it is on a real Model D then it would need to be changed here too.

Its not here. Can you post a preset that shows this please?

[Ingonator]

Try listening then.

I wouldnt say that it modulates itself if it wasnt really the case.

When keytracking is enabled in Osc 3 i indeed hear a pitch change but only while moving the "MW" fader (= mod amount). I do not hear actual FM in Osc 3 like with Osc 1+2.

If i deactivate key tracking i do not hear a pitch change of Osc 3 at all and alo no FM and/or vibrato of Osc 3. Deactivating key tracking is standard when using Osc 3 as a LFO.


UPDATE:
I just did a test wit hSOc 3 activated, full Osc 3 volume, OSc 3 keytrack on, Osc modulation on and MW (= mod amount) set to maximum.

I used an Oscilloscope FX. The result seems to correspond to setting MW at 0 (= no modulation) and setting coarse tune for Osc 3 from 0 to around -4.
So this is indeed a pitch modulation by the mod amount but no actual FM. The waveshape itself is not changed, opposing to FM with Osc 1+2.
I could "compensate the pitch change with the MW amount if i increase the SEMI tuning of Osc 3 (to around +2 when MW is at maximum).

As already mentioned with Osc 3 keytracking off there is also no pitch modulation with the mod amount fader. The signal of the oscillospcope stays unchanged while moving the MW fader there.

[cytospur]

For the records:
I see that both AnX and fluffy little something still seem to respond to my posts here. I had added both to the ignore list a while ago so i do not see their posts unless someone quotes those or if i click on the button to dispaly the posts.

Thanks for the info....

Have I missed something?

[AnX]

For the records:
I see that both AnX and fluffy little something still seem to respond to my posts here. I had added both to the ignore list a while ago so i do not see their posts unless someone quotes those or if i click on the button to dispaly the posts.

Thanks for the info....

Have I missed something?

Very unlikely.

[ENV1]

...i indeed hear a pitch change but only while moving the "MW" fader (= mod amount). I do not hear actual FM in Osc 3 like with Osc 1+2.

Not sure what you mean by 'actual FM', but the fact that you only hear VCO3 modulate itself when you pull up the modwheel shouldnt come as a surprise since there obviously is no oscillator modulation with the MW at 0. (I thought thats kinda understood.)

As to it not doing that when keytracking is off, im not sure that thats right either. Arturias V2 and higher dont do it regardless of whether KT is on or off, (i.e. it never modulates itself), which means either Arturia is wrong or Legend is wrong. If they already checked that and the way it is now is correct then obviously there is no problem. If however Arturia were right then Legend has to have it fixed.

[ENV1]

Its not here. Can you post a preset that shows this please?

Disable VCO1 and VCO2 audio, enable VCO3 audio, enable Oscillator Modulation, pull up the modwheel.

Use the squarewave for maximum effect.

[Ingonator]

...i indeed hear a pitch change but only while moving the "MW" fader (= mod amount). I do not hear actual FM in Osc 3 like with Osc 1+2.

Not sure what you mean by 'actual FM', but the fact that you only hear VCO3 modulate itself when you pull up the modwheel shouldnt come as a surprise since there obviously is no oscillator modulation with the MW at 0. (I thought thats kinda understood.)

FWIW i just found that NI Monark has exactly the same behavior for Osc 3 as The Legend.

With "actual FM" i meant there is no additional pitch modulation and/or Osc FM going on when the MW fader is not moved.
As just mentioend teh oscilloscope only shows a change of the pictch with moving the MW fader but theer is no waveform change like with Osc FM going on (when Osc 3 modulates Osc 1+2).

[ENV1]

I see.

You mean the pitch remains stable.

Since it is one oscillator modulating itself i would expect that.

(Or i still dont understand you right.)

[AnX]

Its not here. Can you post a preset that shows this please?

Disable VCO1 and VCO2 audio, enable VCO3 audio, enable Oscillator Modulation, pull up the modwheel.

Use the squarewave for maximum effect.

Pretty much how i did it, no change to sound here.

What tune setting do you have OSC3 set to ?

[Ingonator]

I see.

You mean the pitch remains stable.

Since it is one oscillator modulating itself i would expect that.

(Or i still dont understand you right.)

An oscillator that does FM with itself in a dedicated FM synth is called "Feedback". Feedback usually has a big influence on the waveshape which is not the case in Osc 3 of The Legend (opposing to modulating Osc 1+2).

As a similar behavior of OSc 3 is found in both The Legend and NI Monark and based on the fact that those currently are more or less regarded as "references" for Minimoog emulations i guess this behavior in those is OK.

[ENV1]

Pretty much how i did it, no change to sound here.

What tune setting do you have OSC3 set to ?

Doesnt matter. Its there even in LO mode.

But keytracking has to be on.

(MW up: VCO goes slower | MW down: VCO goes faster)

[AnX]

Pretty much how i did it, no change to sound here.

What tune setting do you have OSC3 set to ?

Doesnt matter. Its there even in LO mode.

But keytracking has to be on.

(MW up: VCO goes slower | MW down: VCO goes faster)

Sorry, but i cant reproduce that here

[Ingonator]

To sump it up:

1.) a pitch change is only found with OSC Mod switch on, Osc 3 switched on (and Osc 3 volume up), Osc 3 keytracking on and while moving the MW fader (=mod amount)

2.) No further Osc FM while the MW fader is no longer moved (Osc FM similar to that with e.g. Osc 1 or typical FM "feedback" if an Osc modulates itself and not even very slow vibrato)

3.) No pitch change with the MW fader and no other Osc FM of Osc 3 if Osc 3 keytrack is off.

4.) This behavior is found in The Legend and NI Monark while not found in Arturia Mini V3

Question: are both The Legend and Monark wrong there or Mini V3?

Personally i would trust The Legend and Monark more in that respect...

[ENV1]

An oscillator that does FM with itself in a dedicated FM synth is called "Feedback". Feedback usually has a big influence on the waveshape which is not the case in Osc 3 of The Legend (opposing to modulating Osc 1+2).

I see now what you mean, but Ingo, personally i have yet to hear an analog oscillator modulating itself which sounds anything like a 'decicated FM synth' would in the same situation. (And i wouldnt really expect that either.)

[ENV1]

Sorry, but i cant reproduce that here

Cant help then.

Sorry.