What is the Double Augmented Cmaj?

[jancivil]

C to D# and Ab to B are both augmented seconds.

So, if that gets called 'double augmented' scale, it won't be the worst thing I've seen.

"doubly augmented chord"?

[Googly Smythe]

...
"doubly augmented chord"?

This is my response to most things music theory!

[jancivil]

Heh. In my hit-and-run there, instead of what I did type, I meant to make fun of 'Double Augmented Cmaj' which doesn't make any sense. IE: <C major> is either a chord or a scale, in neither case will there be "double augmented" or augmented anything (or we'd call it something other than 'C major').

But, there are these intervals in a tertial harmony that can meaningfully be called 'augmented': the fifth, the sixth, the ninth, the 11th (and actually the 15th and 17th but we can stay clear of that for the moment). The 6th is the outlier here; while I didn't include 'augmented 3rd' (augmenting intervals works like this: major->augmented, perfect->augmented) because it doesn't really promote any type of tertial harmony and seems like a P4, the augmented 6th chord is a thing. It's a result of raising the 6th of a iv chord (iv in minor) in first inversion (eg., in A minor, F and D) a semitone to promote tension and create a secondary dominant in one motion. While on the surface it seems like a minor 7th [F A D#/F A Eb] it's meant to employ voice-leading differently. In A minor, F A D# to E G# E (V), in the most basic sense. (It's kind of a precursor to your flat 5 substitute 'theory'. I remember receiving that ("Tristan chord") and comparing it with this guy 'Grover' who was taking Jazz Reharmonization while I was taking 'Chromatic' harmony, 'wait, this is the same deal'.)

That aside, tertially speaking we can have an augmented 5th and a 'sharp 9', particularly on a dominant-type 7th chord. G B D# F A#. A# is an augmented 9th, no problem.

[BertKoor]

Isn't it fun how an ingnorant question posted eight years ago by a noob that lost all interest even after a week still leaves y'all nitpicking over the details?

[jancivil]

"nitpicking"?

[skipscada]

Isn't it fun how an ingnorant question posted eight years ago by a noob that lost all interest even after a week still leaves y'all nitpicking over the details?

Actually, I talked to the OP this morning, and he expressed gratitude for this thread revival, saying it's given him "closure" and that he can now finally get on with his life. He's now investigating the triple augmented Cmaj.

[Kevin Doyle]

While looking for information about ‘double augmented triad’ last week in a google search, all I could find was this forgotten online discussion (and did not notice all of the replies had been posted during a one month period almost 9 YEARS AGO). I mentioned my idea of a “double augmented triad” which has augmented major third and augmented perfect fifth. I really thought “this is such a misguided discussion that it will probably be decades before people discover my idea, and for ‘double augmented triad’ to eventually become a widely used term”.
In hindsight, I now believe the common term “augmented triad” is a misnomer because it is essentially major and perfect INTERVALS, not chords, which are augmented. The widely used term “augmented triad” has been defined on Wikipedia but it is essentially a shortcut which refers specifically to a triad with a major third and the assumption that only the perfect fifth interval in this chord is augmented. Apparently, standardized definitions for “double augmented triad” or “Double Augmented Cmaj” from the original subject of this thread do not exist.
I will continue using my definition of “double augmented triad”, however, and hope that this term will eventually be adopted for common use and that I will eventually receive credit in music theory history for coining this term (but I guess it's easier to just call it a +3+5 chord). I also got a good laugh when I found out that I had sparked renewed interest with 6 new comments suddenly appearing over the weekend regarding this important discussion.

[jancivil]

You'll have to come up with a musical point, a concrete example for "augmented third" for it to be other than empty lingo. I doubt you have such a thing.

[jancivil]

It's a perfect fourth, FFS.

[jancivil]

Oh, and by the way, what is this sentence...

you equivocated a chord and by extension one of Messian's treatments of a abstract symmetrical mode, with an entire form of composition.

... supposed to mean? I'd probably respond to it if I could understand it.

Has it been through babelfish or some other kind of computer translation?

Ah, do I remember the late Nuffink. I'd already explained it. Saying it is Raga whatever equated the other things to a form of composition. Duh. That regurgitation of information, with no actual idea of usage, used to piss me off. I was homeless using Berkeley Public Library, little better to do than that.

[jancivil]

Apparently, standardized definitions for “double augmented triad” or “Double Augmented Cmaj” from the original subject of this thread do not exist.
I will continue using my definition of “double augmented triad”, however, and hope that this term will eventually be adopted for common use and that I will eventually receive credit in music theory history for coining this term (but I guess it's easier to just call it a +3+5 chord). I also got a good laugh when I found out that I had sparked renewed interest with 6 new comments suddenly appearing over the weekend regarding this important discussion.

So, shortly following your realization that it's actually the intervals which are augmented, you decided "augmented third" should be really legit? Surely you're having us on.

[KyleJudkins]

C E xG is called, *drum roll*

A Minor, first inversion

[Rappo Clappo]

Well, in C major the augmented chord comes from the third mode of both the harmonic minor and the melodic minor scales. For example, the third mode of the A minor melodic consists of C, D, E, F#, G#, A, and B. Therefore, the notes of the C augM7 chord are C, E, G#, and B.

So a double augmentation of a C maj7 chord would come down to adding a F# and a G#.

If that makes any sense. And obviously it does:

For example, C augM7#4 (C G# B E F#) solves nicely to B maj7 (B A# D# F#).

PS You can derive these chords if you have studied this:
Jazz Guitar Series: Rhythm and Background Chords [Warren Nunes, Jerry Snyder]

PPS you can use the chord in a parallel progression. For example,
B maj7/D maj7/G maj7/C augM7#4 and then end in B maj7.

[jancivil]

Well, in C major the augmented chord comes from the third mode of both the harmonic minor and the melodic minor scales. For example, the third mode of the A minor melodic consists of C, D, E, F#, G#, A, and B. Therefore, the notes of the C augM7 chord are C, E, G#, and B.

So a double augmentation of a C maj7 chord would come down to adding a F# and a G#.

That works of course but so does augmented fifth and augmented ninth. C G# D# E B. I like your move to B^7.

Check this out: || : C G# D# E B; E C G Ab Bb; Ab E B C G : ||.
a circle...