KVR Audio

Wormhelmet · Post by **Wormhelmet** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:01 pm

I am so in for a 2600 and OSCar clone.

Will part with my money and nary a thought on ethics will enter my mind.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:56 pm

Wormhelmet wrote:I am so in for a 2600 and OSCar clone.

Will part with my money and nary a thought on ethics will enter my mind.

I'm not really interested in an OSCar clone, but a 2600 clone, or really, just something that is similar in sound and function but at behringer pricing could be a winner.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:04 am

Chapelle wrote:Finally, someone did it! A hardware clone of the Arturia Mini-V.

But at that price, if it can perform as a hardware synth, and also moonlight as a midi controller with that kind of hands on control, that is some bargain

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:00 am

Numanoid wrote:
Chapelle wrote:Finally, someone did it! A hardware clone of the Arturia Mini-V.

But at that price, if it can perform as a hardware synth, and also moonlight as a midi controller with that kind of hands on control, that is some bargain

midi controller ? why stop there ... hopefully it will moonlight as an soundcard too. and i think there's enough free space on the faceplate to warrant putting a deep enough indentation that can be used as an ash-tray, and a hand-driven coffee grinder on the side.

and a usb hub too, since it's gonna double as a soundcard.

damn, what a bargain that would be.

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:52 am

the arp2600 really would be mega and I hope they go the extra mile to get it right. maybe doing what korg did for the odissey including both the 4012 and 4072 filters.
an arp 2600P v2.0 is the best synth of all time imo. i'd preorder one instantly.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:01 am

Recent news show Behringer is working on up to 20 synths. If they're going to be similiar to Model D clone, there are great times ahead!

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:20 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:Recent news show Behringer is working on up to 20 synths. If they're going to be similiar to Model D clone, there are great times ahead!

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6725368

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:38 am

olikana wrote:the arp2600 really would be mega and I hope they go the extra mile to get it right. maybe doing what korg did for the odissey including both the 4012 and 4072 filters.
an arp 2600P v2.0 is the best synth of all time imo. i'd preorder one instantly.

I hope they get it right too ... and by get it right, I mean - besides your suggestion of multiple filter types - reducing the size if possible and using eurorack 1/8" patch points. getting the physical size down to something eurorackable would be great.

I have a ms20m ... and the 1/4" patch points are a drag. It's quite maddening since they included a passive patch bay/multiplier but only for three, count 'em, three 1/8" jacks. they even support Hz/V and oct/V ... so between that and the teeny weeny 1/8" patch bay it's not like they didn't have eurorack and modern modular in mind .... yet they still went with 1/4". derp.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:47 am

Daags wrote:
olikana wrote:the arp2600 really would be mega and I hope they go the extra mile to get it right. maybe doing what korg did for the odissey including both the 4012 and 4072 filters.
an arp 2600P v2.0 is the best synth of all time imo. i'd preorder one instantly.

I hope they get it right too ... and by get it right, I mean - besides your suggestion of multiple filter types - reducing the size if possible and using eurorack 1/8" patch points. getting the physical size down to something eurorackable would be great.

2600 had 1/8" patch points.

While I would like them to reduce the size somewhat. I really hope that they don't listen to the eurorack crowd on size. For me, eurorack size is a key reason why so much live eurorack music is total crap. You can watch people playing trying to be oh so careful to twist just the right knobs and not bump the others.

Instruments need a nice balance in terms of playing surface and eurorack goes too far. I would think about 70% of the original size while keeping the basic original form factor as a playable instrument would be a nice approach. Don't include a keyboard, rather, just have a USB host port that will host a midi controller as well as a normal usb port for midi over usb. Bring the midi out to patch points, and drop the speakers. Replace the reverb tank with the effects from the DeepMind with a few patchable CV inputs for effect modulation.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:44 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Daags wrote:
olikana wrote:the arp2600 really would be mega and I hope they go the extra mile to get it right. maybe doing what korg did for the odissey including both the 4012 and 4072 filters.
an arp 2600P v2.0 is the best synth of all time imo. i'd preorder one instantly.

I hope they get it right too ... and by get it right, I mean - besides your suggestion of multiple filter types - reducing the size if possible and using eurorack 1/8" patch points. getting the physical size down to something eurorackable would be great.
2600 had 1/8" patch points.

While I would like them to reduce the size somewhat. I really hope that they don't listen to the eurorack crowd on size. For me, eurorack size is a key reason why so much live eurorack music is total crap. You can watch people playing trying to be oh so careful to twist just the right knobs and not bump the others.

Instruments need a nice balance in terms of playing surface and eurorack goes too far. I would think about 70% of the original size while keeping the basic original form factor as a playable instrument would be a nice approach. Don't include a keyboard, rather, just have a USB host port that will host a midi controller as well as a normal usb port for midi over usb. Bring the midi out to patch points, and drop the speakers. Replace the reverb tank with the effects from the DeepMind with a few patchable CV inputs for effect modulation.

great, didn't know that about the original patch points.

as far as size ... well, I didn't mean some kind of futile reduction for the sake of reducing, at the cost of dimished usability. 70% sounds about right. the main thing I was considering is having it made in measures of 3U height, and whatever is closest to 70% in terms of HP. It's a semi/modular synth ... lets not pretend eurorack isn't the defacto modular standard right now, and make the mistakes that were - imo - made with korg's desktop ms20m, or the make noise 0-coast. So, building it in such a manner that one could easily plant it in amongst your existing eurorack setup is as far as I'm concerned the 'right' way to go about it.

as far as 'live eurorack music' being total crap, well I think you're overestimating just how much the sizing standard is contributing to that. I'd say 98% of it is down to the user. At any rate, there's nothing about the eurorack sizing standard that is forcing module makers to cramp the dials or place the patchpoints in ill-conceived places. If I suggest to someone making a semi/modular analogue synth to keep it eurorack compatible, in terms of dimensions, I'm not telling them 'cramp the shit out of everything please'.

The most recent time this has occurred to me was with the Make-Noise 0-coast ... seems to me this choice was made so as to not eat in to sales of modules. It's a short sighted decision, imo, and if it's some wishy washy philosophical decision (we want the 0-coast to be self contained so the user can blah blah yadda yadda) it also falls flat. 1st world problem, but it sucks having all these modular bits and pieces that refuse to conform to the sizing/power standard and so your desktop is over crowded and awkward (not the cool, mad musician kind of over crowded ... just the shit, sore back kind), and you're dealing with all these power strips to accomodate all the plugs. just make explicitly modular shit eurorackable.

obviously this is a case of ymmv.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:57 am

I think that eurorack stuff starts too small to be useful in the first place. Same with FracRack stuff. Moreover, the trend seems to be towards cramming things in ever smaller spaces. I do think that it impacts performance, it limits bold and fast moves. Frankly, modular synths in general limit bold moves which is why semi-modular "instruments" are often a better choice. That filter cutoff is ALWAYs in the same place.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:58 am

Model D is a very simple synth, eurorack is all the size it deserves

For the same reason it could use help of patch points and connectivity for sequencing and modulation. There is no much point to perform the hell out of it, either. I really don't see any arguments for a device which is the size of Sub-37 and has a fraction of its features but double the price.

However, I see that the "concept art" we've seen could be somewhat optimized in design phase.

I think that eurorack stuff starts too small to be useful in the first place

To each his own. You can always connect your favourite full-size controller. That's probably better than to have 10 full-sized synths mounted on walls and not be able to reach all of them.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:03 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:Model D is a very simple synth, eurorack is all the size it deserves For the same reason it could use help of patch points and connectivity for sequencing and modulation. There is no much point to perform the hell out of it, either.

Yeah well, I suppose, if you don't know how, which might be true if you've only experienced the eurorack generation.

I can tell you that I used to perform the hell out of an SH101 and some System 100 stuff and those moves are every bit as relevant today as they were then.

I can clearly see from watching a lot of videos that a large part of the eurorack contingent doesn't know how to perform and the size clearly gets in their way.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:12 am

maybe I'd agree if other aspects of the music were there ... but that isn't the case in much of the bad 'live eurorack' stuff I've seen. of the bad stuff I've seen, no amount of large, comfortable, spacious knobs would have made the recording/performance any better - so many other, more significant (imo) aspects of the piece sucked. i can't recall ever seeing a bad 'live eurorack' piece and thinking to myself 'oh, this would sound good if only he had more clearance on those two knobs he tweaks, with that pensive look in his eyes'

obviously I've seen patch setups that are just covered in cables that are clearly in the way .... but those patches sounded like absolute arse anyways, regardless of whatever sequence of rhythmic and/or well timed tweaks he might be better able to do if he had a little more knob clearance.

at any rate, the position of patch points and placement/size of knobs comes down to the module manufacturer, not the eurorack standard itself. if the standard eurorack module was 6U high, the same module manufacturers would just put twice as many knobs/patch points in the module, or keep it just as 'cramped' by keeping the same amount of knobs/patch points but making it half as wide.

blame the module makers, and blame the people supporting the module maker's design decisions by buying the modules. but the eurorack standard is imo A-OK, and people making explicitly modular gear should be fully compatible with it.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:04 am

Daags wrote:maybe I'd agree if other aspects of the music were there ... but that isn't the case in much of the bad 'live eurorack' stuff I've seen. of the bad stuff I've seen, no amount of large, comfortable, spacious knobs would have made the recording/performance any better - so many other, more significant (imo) aspects of the piece sucked. i can't recall ever seeing a bad 'live eurorack' piece and thinking to myself 'oh, this would sound good if only he had more clearance on those two knobs he tweaks, with that pensive look in his eyes'

Yeah, but you're not going to see that. On the other hand, if you realize what a larger instrument does for you then you can see how the size influences the performance.

I tried to find a good performance on youtube, but I don't have that much patience. Take a cue from scratch DJs to get a sense of what I'm talking about.

The other thing that matters is a proper selection of sliders and rotational controls for different inputs. If you're going to just use one, I generally prefer sliders.

Behringer D Synth - Full Analog, Eurorack compatible, No Keys, 400$