Reaper MIDI track configuration question

[SJ_Digriz]

I have Arturia Analog Lab running in VEP Pro.
I have an Arturia Keylab
The Keylab is fussy about channel settings getting passed through

So, I need to send ALL MIDI data to ALL channels to VEP Pro in order to get the controls on the keylab to work in relative mode with Analog Lab.

In Cubase I set the MIDI channel Output to ALL. And in VEP the MIDI Input has to be set to ALL. For example, if I set the Cubase MIDI Output or the VEP Pro Input to Channel 1, then I only get absolute control of Analog Lab controls. If I set both the MIDI output and MIDI Input to ALL, I get relative control. Obviously I want relative control.

In Repear I don't see a way to do this. I'm only getting Absolute control from the controllers, which means I'm somehow suppressing some channel messaging. I have VEP Pro set to ALL. But, I don't see a MIDI Channel Out configuration in the Routing Window.

I figure Ed will know this off the top of his head.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

[DarkStar]

I do not know how relative MIDI CC messages are encoded [*] or VEP Pro, but the only place where they can be selected is in the MIDI Learn dialogue:



And when you select the keyboard as the MIDI Input device, make sure that you select "All channels" from the sub-menu.

Just to check: is the keyboard enabled for Input AND Control in Reaper's Preferences?

------------------------------------------------------------
[*] Anyone got a good link that explains this?

[Chris-S]

I do not know how relative MIDI CC messages are encoded [*] ?

Reaper supports 3 different rel encodings.

My Axiom midi keyboard uses option 2 (of course it also has absolute mode).

So, +1 is send as 65, +2 as 66, -1 as 63, -2 as 62 and so on.

[Chris-S]

For MIDI troubleshooting you can insert the "JS MIDI Logger" at the begin of a FX chain to see the incoming midi messages.

[SJ_Digriz]

Thanks for the tip on the JS MIDI Logger. I still can't get it to work in Reaper in relative mode going to VEP. Works fine localy as a plugin and in Cubase going to VEP if I have All/All set on both sides.

[EvilDragon]

Sorry I'm not much of help here, as I don't own that particular controller, and I'm using absolute control all the time.

[SJ_Digriz]

No problem ED, I figured if anyone knows off the top of their head it would be you. I'm not bashing Reaper by the way, the stupid Arturia controllers are fickle as anything. On the surface they are EXACTLY what I want. The implementation and ongoing support is horrible though. Trying to figure out why Relative mode availability comes and goes is mind numbingly stupid. But, when it works you never want to work in absolute mode again. But, then suddenly it doesn't work again. I should just quit f'ing around and get used to working in absolute mode.

[jancivil]

I have Arturia Analog Lab running in VEP Pro.

This is confusing to me. Do you mean you are using the controller in REAPER connected to VEP?
Or directly in VEP, set up in VEP.

The latter is not supported, officially it's "Experimental". I set up a lot of control this way (just to see if the Arturia Beatstep controlled things right, I had no DAW installed on this machine at the time) but it was all 'absolute' mode, if only because I don't get 'relative'.

[SJ_Digriz]

I have Arturia Analog Lab running in VEP Pro.

This is confusing to me. Do you mean you are using the controller in REAPER connected to VEP?
Or directly in VEP, set up in VEP.

The latter is not supported, officially it's "Experimental". I set up a lot of control this way (just to see if the Arturia Beatstep controlled things right, I had no DAW installed on this machine at the time) but it was all 'absolute' mode, if only because I don't get 'relative'.

Keylab -> Reaper->VEP Plugin->VEP->Instance of Analog Lab


If you replace Reaper with Cubase it works in relative mode in the VEP host..... usually.

So far, I can't get relative response using various combinations of tracks in Reaper. It controls analog lab, but in an absolute fashion. So I can't for example use the scroller on the keylab to select patches. And obviously the encoder controls jump. Interestingly enough the faders work in overtake mode properly in every scenario in every host.

In reality I think I should be using overtake terminology even for the encoders, because I don't believe it uses actual relative mode even in stand alone use.

[jancivil]

The encoder knobs were not too smooth in Kontakt, what I had set up. Worked better in Reaktor.

[SJ_Digriz]

Actually, I may have just figured it out. I was using the VST 3 version of the plugin in Reaper. In VEP, it only supports the VST2 version. VST3 = no relative mode (or whatever the controller is doing in it's native control mode) pass through.
VST2 = plugin responds correctly.

[DarkStar]

I do not know how relative MIDI CC messages are encoded [*] ?

Reaper supports 3 different rel encodings.

My Axiom midi keyboard uses option 2 (of course it also has absolute mode).

So, +1 is send as 65, +2 as 66, -1 as 63, -2 as 62 and so on.

I meant: what actual MIDI messages are sent by a controller working in relative mode. I thought that they were meant to be 'endless'. Or have I mixed up the two things.

[Chris-S]

The Axiom has several modes. The simple one uses the same CC, only different values.
And it has a NRPN mode:

[DarkStar]

Got it, thank you.

[SJ_Digriz]

Got it, thank you.

I apologized a bit earlier for using "relative mode" generically. I was meaning in the general sense of how it acts, not the actual technical implementation. As Chris mentioned there are lots of ways this functionality gets implemented. There are lots of ways to do it like soft and hard takeover in addition to the +1/-1 that gets sent in the traditional relative communications.

I don't know what the Keylab is actually doing to get relative behavior. I'll stick a MIDI monitor on at some point. But, when it is controlling Analog Lab, all the knobs are in absolute mode (they send the next/previous value not +1/-1 or 66/68 etc..) and yet you get relative behavior from the VSTi controls and soft takeover behavior from the sliders. So they have to be doing something on the plugin side when they see it's an arturia controller.