Is plugin market going down?

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

The plugin market is not "going down". In fact is increasing. Here is proof from the NAMM 2015 report:

https://www.slideshare.net/PromocionMus ... eport-2015 (go to page 30)

"Plugin Software & Loops" has been on a growing trend of increasing 78% over the past 10 years.

So no, the market is not going down. Being honest Voxengo, your website, in my opinion is really not good and its why I've never been interested in your plugins. It looks like it was made 10-15 years ago. Its text heavy and does not look professional compared to the competitors anymore. There is no colour scheme, and I have no idea what I should do when I land on your website. You're not guiding me to your product list for instance, or "get started here" or "sale products" etc.

Not having the price on the products on each page because "it doesnt work great for us" is the most odd comment I have ever heard of before. What would happen if you walked into the shop in town and had to bring an item up to the register before you could see the price? Then you wanted to see how much another product was, but again you had to go to the checkout to get the price? I'd just go to another shop.

I think what's happening is that you're basing all of your "data" on trends that were around 10-15 years ago when you started your company but you haven't kept up with the times. Seriously, take a look at your competitors websites and see where you differ.

I know that survey. I would say that those margins are NOT equally distributed. Few companies are leading the sampler market (loops), with more of 20 millions income each.
80% of increase rate is what we have been experiencing in our past 4 years, but we are a bit a unconventional company, I know this is not the rule. What I see is a race of prices to the bottom. This is going to increase costs (advertisement, support) in the long term. So even if I see our situation today is very good (because we can keep costs incredibly low) I see a problem in the long term

Fyi, our typical product costs more then 100. But I realize several companies, even if apparently are selling expensive items are really discounting things about 90%. I see deals around 9 eur. Someone is providing thousands of free bundles to schools...
Yes, everyone will converge to lower support costs (central installer & authorize apps).... But come on...

[Orbit-50]

Guys, just stop trying to help him and talk some sense. He's clearly has his own stubborn and quite arrogant mind and attitude. No matter what you say to him, he won't listen.. So just stop. :v

Reading through this thread, I have to agree with you. Many have said basically the same three things over and over, but the developer seems to feel that 8,000,000 people, can in fact, be wrong. Therein lies the problem.

[Boone777]

Could it be possible that the extra trafic is generated by the freebies? There is a good selection of them on Voxengo's site. It would be a good idea to profit on this to get sales in at the same time. I remember couple of years ago I really wanted to get my hands on your plugins but there was always another thing that I would prefer. Because of the GUI or extra options. I always found my way around the site personnaly but I can understand why people are complaining.

[ghettosynth]

I think what's happening is that you're basing all of your "data" on trends that were around 10-15 years ago when you started your company but you haven't kept up with the times. Seriously, take a look at your competitors websites and see where you differ.

Yes, this is the problem with A/B testing. It's like asking, "which would you prefer, death by hanging, or death by lethal injection?" It answers the questions that you're asking, but tells you nothing about the questions that you don't ask.

I recall a similar thread several years ago where, IIRC, Voxengo was asking about color schemes and wanted to know which of the two very similar schemes was preferred. The overwhelming consensus was, "neither."

[journey33]

Voxengo: "Potential customers why aren't you buying / buying less?"

Potential customers: "well seeing as how you asked, these are some of the reasons and things you could improve upon"

Voxengo: "No you're wrong. I've got data that says otherwise. But thanks"

[stratum]

Not that there is nothing that could be improved, but what do you expect to be done, have a number Russian rapper bros on the website saying how cool and phat these plugins sound? Write an article about the subtle ways EQs or compressors could be different? Do you also think it is absolutely necessary to have a magazine review about that difference (if any they can actually hear) ? You know that kind of marketing is about telling too many lies and this industry is beyond reason for a rational person.

[HobbyCore]

Voxengo: "Potential customers why aren't you buying / buying less?"

Potential customers: "well seeing as how you asked, these are some of the reasons and things you could improve upon"

Voxengo: "No you're wrong. I've got data that says otherwise. But thanks"

That isnt what what asked.

It seems that a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

[ghettosynth]

Not that there is nothing that could be improved, but what do you expect to be done, have a number Russian rapper bros on the website saying how cool and phat these plugins sound? Write an article about the subtle ways EQs or compressors could be different? Do you also think it is absolutely necessary to have a magazine review about that difference (if any they can actually hear) ? You know that kind of marketing is about telling too many lies and this industry is beyond reason for a rational person.

The message is getting lost. You basically have four devs whose websites, guis, or differentiation message, all have some issues that agree with each other. Urs, who doesn't have an issue in those areas, at least with respect to synths, basically disagrees.

Complaining about customers being ignorant is sour grapes. Obviously, those ignorant customers are the ones that one wants, and, as evidenced by the existence of this thread, are starting to ignore what's on offer.

[ghettosynth]

Voxengo: "Potential customers why aren't you buying / buying less?"

Potential customers: "well seeing as how you asked, these are some of the reasons and things you could improve upon"

Voxengo: "No you're wrong. I've got data that says otherwise. But thanks"

That isnt what what asked.

It seems that a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

Everyone understands the question, it's in the title. What isn't being understood is how that question naturally leads to a followup discussion. If you don't like that, don't come asking questions on a public forum.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

Nevermind.

[xoxos]

The overwhelming consensus was, "neither."

voxengo has contributed to the vst medium since the beginning and has received top tier recognition from the industry and independent users alike.. people who have been here. i concur - a variety of matters have been brought to the public for input over the years, for what reason i'm not certain enough to state.

i'll tell you what though. for a characteristically productive developer, i wouldn't ascribe design by consensus as being a major part of his process. i mean, these discussions might incite public input, and the response may be carefully considered. but no one who gets anything done in the real world allows public feedback to make decisions for them. the amount of corporate sabotage and puerility in this industry makes it de facto. i would think of these threads less as appeals of a confused implementor, and more as light advertising by engaging the public and a public service to give all the lonely producers something to chat about and feel that their discretions are meaningful haha. if you cannot abide using a compressor unless it has dimples, then you are probably not as interested in using a compressor as you are in being seen as a person of distinction. this is obvious. we know it. this discussion is public charity, babysitting you know. sometimes the baby says interesting thing, and the stimulation promotes growth.

[ghettosynth]

The overwhelming consensus was, "neither."

i mean, these discussions might incite public input, and the response may be carefully considered. but no one who gets anything done in the real world allows public feedback to make decisions for them.

I don't disagree, however, it highlights the limitations of A/B testing. Moreover, if you do A/B testing, there's no reason to ask in a forum like this.

You can't just ignore statistical evidence that's in front of your face. The general consensus is that Voxengo plugins have ugly GUIs. I love that fourth link that talks about how Melda plugins are "almost as ugly as Voxengo."

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... ck-up.html

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 98&t=25780

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/for ... 14/230876-

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Voxengo-Drumf ... 85421.aspx

http://forum.cockos.com/archive/index.php/t-81589.html

Maybe ugly is the answer, I wouldn't know. What I do know is that you're not going to be successful A/B testing that unless you hire someone to actually design a good looking GUI. You can fake it with a mockup, so long as you're willing to risk pissing off your customers that it's just a mockup.

You can dismiss all of that with "not proper sampling", "not random", or whatever you want, but there's very little evidence to the contrary. People aren't as polite as they're being in this thread when the dev isn't in the room. "Butt ugly" is pretty descriptive.

Industry accolades are worth what they're worth. If they don't get customers talking about your product, then who cares? What people are saying about Voxengo around the web is what the potential customers are saying in this thread.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... oxengo,Uhe

[ghettosynth]

if you cannot abide using a compressor unless it has dimples, then you are probably not as interested in using a compressor as you are in being seen as a person of distinction. this is obvious. we know it.

Nonsense! You are painting a false dichotomy. Who says that the compressors with dimples aren't better than those without? I have limited experience with Voxengo, I only have actively tried two of their plugins and I only have a strong opinion about one. OldSchoolVerb-Free version simply isn't competitive today, even as a free reverb.

Moreover, so what? If the goal is to sell compressors and compressors with dimples sell more because people like being seen as a person of distinction, then quit crying about the market, man up, and add some dimples already.

What I have consistently observed, however, is that the best products come from those devs who don't ignore any aspect of the process. If you can think of a better candidate for the duties of Diva than Diva, I'm all ears, tell me about it. I will go try it today.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... oxengo,Uhe

Low base effect. Organic web search visits in absolute numbers increased tremendously during these 12 years. I do not understand what these trends are actually measuring. It's like 50 websearches 12 years ago in 90% of cases requested Voxengo while now 500 websearches requested Voxengo in 40% of cases. No idea what these trends are measuring, but it's definite that 12 years ago there were no 4 times more organic web search visits, we are now at the all-time maximum number of web search visits. And .. we have more monthly pageviews than what Uhe said. serving 80000 downloads monthly.

[Aleatoriac]

sometimes the baby says interesting thing

Wait... what?