KVR Audio

S0lo · Post by **S0lo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:52 am

egbert101 wrote:I don't buy the "hardware is all different" excuses. Everyone knows hardware is different ....

Infact no, not everyone knows that.

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:58 am

himalaya wrote:Didn't read to the thread so apologies if this has been mentioned....The video does not compare envelopes at all. How does the sound respond to envelope shaping (especially the 'attack' stage) , for amplitude and filter modualtion in all plugins? This should be one of the main comparison criteria.

I think he underestimated the work involved in just doing what he did. Witness the detailed comparisons at the beginning becoming ever less so as the process dragged on (particularly as the comparisons became less easy to show). Multiple envelope settings for multiple destinations for multiple units would have probably pushed him over the edge to despair

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:00 am

AnX wrote:The video is pretty pointless, as none of the plugins were modelled on his MM.

Not at all - I think his video more than adequately conveyed the family resemblances and differences

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:05 am

egbert101 wrote:
himalaya wrote:Didn't read to the thread so apologies if this has been mentioned....The video does not compare envelopes at all. How does the sound respond to envelope shaping (especially the 'attack' stage) , for amplitude and filter modualtion in all plugins? This should be one of the main comparison criteria.
It is definitely something that was missed. Others have said that there are problems with some of the ways the testing was done. I don't buy the "hardware is all different" excuses. Everyone knows hardware is different but not wildly enough to make testing pointless. Also, I'm assuming he's got the new reissued Model D, so essentially it's a prestine Model D.

I learned a lot from these tests, but I think there is definitely room for more analysis. It would be great if there was construcive feedback given to Starsky Carr, so that he could perhaps do a follow up video.

Welllll... I can compare two Minimoogs in absolutely great shape side by side. One has a 13xx serial, the other a 99xx. The envelopes are utterly different, the infamous "attack accumulation" happening in the VCA env in one, but only in the VCF env in the other. The shortest times differ also.

I have no idea what the new models are like.

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:28 am

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:34 am

egbert101 wrote:
Urs wrote: I have no idea what the new models are like.
The new models sound great over youtube's mp3 streaming.

Unfortunately, as much as I try, when I check out a unit on Youtube, I can't work out how to push an oscilloscope probe into it. There's always some kind of invisible barrier

audio/fault · Post by **audio/fault** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:37 am

why didn't they include steinberg model-e?

S0lo · Post by **S0lo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:40 am

Urs wrote:
egbert101 wrote:
Urs wrote: I have no idea what the new models are like.
The new models sound great over youtube's mp3 streaming.
Unfortunately, as much as I try, when I check out a unit on Youtube, I can't work out how to push an oscilloscope probe into it. There's always some kind of invisible barrier

Try downloading the mp4 file using some youtube downloader browser plugin.

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:43 am

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:55 am

egbert101 wrote:
Urs wrote: Unfortunately, as much as I try, when I check out a unit on Youtube, I can't work out how to push an oscilloscope probe into it. There's always some kind of invisible barrier
LOL. Can't trust hardware analogue oscilloscopes, when they don't do those fuzzy bits.

But I guess, now you can get your sticky fingers on those new ones Model D's now. Grr.

Or maybe I wait for the Ulimoog

No really, should we ever do a Minimoog emu, it would need to be something else. Like an emulation of a Eurorack version or something. I guess before that happens we'll update Diva with newer algorithms.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:56 am

egbert101 wrote:
Urs wrote: I have no idea what the new models are like.
The new models sound great over youtube's mp3 streaming.

EDIT: To be completely fair, most of the emulations were made before the new reissued Model D's came out, with the exception of The Legend, or The Legend came out at the same time.

So, technically, The Legend could have been tested and calibrated alongside the newer Model D's and so that would give it a bit of an advantage over the others. This, I think, should have been made a bit clear in the shootout video.

Legend wasnt modelled or tested against the re-issue.

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:56 am

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:59 am

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:26 am

In The Legend i had just created a Bell like sound based on 3 Square waveforms (at 3 octaves) and using 50% Filter FM. Sounds graet as it is and could also use it polyphonic in The Legend.

Just for fun i tried to replicate it in Monark and beside the fact i could only playit monophonic there after some time i gave up. I just could not get the Filter FM sound similar to the patch in The Legend. The result in Monark did sound quite harsh and not very pleasing in comparison besides also having differences in the overall sound/timbre.
At the moment using Monark for doing my own patches in Monark seems to be a kind of waste of time when i could mostly get better results in The Legend.

I feel that with "real world" use (= doing your own patches) you might find even bigger differences than with "scientific" tests like in that video.

Another differnce is the envelopes where is used the ADSR in The Legend which is hard to replicate with the ADS envelopes in Monark and also the real thing. This is one of the features which is a big improvement in The Legend compared to the real thing and where it did not make too much sense to replicate it 100% properly like in the real thing (while you could easily emulate the ADS envelopes with ADSR).

egbert101 · Post by **egbert101** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:39 am

Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D