KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:17 pm

I think "accept" is the wrong word. People have a choice. Take Netflix, or similar services for example. People have the choice to either pay, and use that, or wait until the series' are available on DVD, Bluray, or even in free TV. Obviously, they are ok with subscription services, and a minority is complaining about it, and implies that the majority just "accepts it" without having a choice. There is a choice. Unless you are panting for everything new and shiny, and can't live without it.

If you don't like what Roland is doing, don't buy into it. If noone buys into it, they will change their business model. As easy as that. Please don't complain that the majority is obvious ok with it, and buys into it, and imply that they eat what's being served. That's nonsense. I really can't stress it enough, keeping your wallet in your pocket is the strongest point you can make. Anything else is just bla bla, without a point.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:38 pm

Doesnt seem like you got what i was saying.

But no matter, i know that a little text like that wont change anything. It is like it is, the world will go where it will go, and in the end the people will have to thank themselves for it. So will the ones that didnt want it to be that way.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:53 pm

mholloway wrote:from a UI perspective, all of their plugins belong in 2005....

...rotary control only for knobs? are you kidding me?

...tiny fonts and smeared graphics?

...bizarre oldschool preset bank sorting, though that's the least offense overall.

thing is, though, I do think these things sound really, really good. The System 100, Pro-Mars and SH02 all were already fantastic. I think the new Juno sounds really amazing, too. The Jupiter, well, it's OK to me. but I've never been smitten with the Jupiter 8 to begin with.

I can't believe that Roland is trying to push a subscription service in 2017 with the UI's of these things... they are seriously living on a different planet.

also, the SH02 is nearly killed by the low-note priority only limitation. horrible.

-M

Yes, the cloud subscription merely hides from most the fact that these are very poorly programed VSTs with almost unusably high CPU, poor GUI and a sound that is bettered by many better looking lower CPU plug ins.

gunark · Post by **gunark** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Really? I've found the sound to be a cut above most. The Jupiter 8 is better than the Arturia, the SH101 beats out the likes of LUSh and the 106 is the best 106 plugin going (and some prefer it to the Jp8). The rest have no equivalent plugins as far as I Know?

Yes th cloud is a bit daft - initially it even refused to work on mobile devices, and they are terrible GUIs, that's for sure. But they are not especially optimised for x86 type processors but then people have been clamouring for the plug outs of the System 8 to be released. So if they don't, people complain Roland is holding them back, and if they do, people complain theyre not optimised, even though they are possibly running something like emulated code.

waltercruz · Post by **waltercruz** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:18 pm

SLiC wrote:Yes, the cloud subscription merely hides from most the fact that these are very poorly programed VSTs with almost unusably high CPU, poor GUI and a sound that is bettered by many better looking lower CPU plug ins.

I did a lot of tests and comparisons between Roland SH-101 plugin and Lush-101 and Roland Juno-106 plugin and TAL-Uno LX, and I found the sound of the Roland plugins VERY good and 'live'. To me, they sounded better than the other mentioned plugins. But, these other plugins are better PRODUCTS to me: they have good interfaces (even D-16 Lush-101 has a better interface than Roland), have good prices and are good on CPU. But the sound of Roland plugins is real good.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:43 pm

waltercruz wrote:
SLiC wrote:Yes, the cloud subscription merely hides from most the fact that these are very poorly programed VSTs with almost unusably high CPU, poor GUI and a sound that is bettered by many better looking lower CPU plug ins.
I did a lot of tests and comparisons between Roland SH-101 plugin and Lush-101 and Roland Juno-106 plugin and TAL-Uno LX, and I found the sound of the Roland plugins VERY good and 'live'. To me, they sounded better than the other mentioned plugins. But, these other plugins are better PRODUCTS to me: they have good interfaces (even D-16 Lush-101 has a better interface than Roland), have good prices and are good on CPU. But the sound of Roland plugins is real good.

Same for me, they sound really good but they lack quality in everything else.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:52 pm

rod_zero wrote:
waltercruz wrote:
SLiC wrote:Yes, the cloud subscription merely hides from most the fact that these are very poorly programed VSTs with almost unusably high CPU, poor GUI and a sound that is bettered by many better looking lower CPU plug ins.
I did a lot of tests and comparisons between Roland SH-101 plugin and Lush-101 and Roland Juno-106 plugin and TAL-Uno LX, and I found the sound of the Roland plugins VERY good and 'live'. To me, they sounded better than the other mentioned plugins. But, these other plugins are better PRODUCTS to me: they have good interfaces (even D-16 Lush-101 has a better interface than Roland), have good prices and are good on CPU. But the sound of Roland plugins is real good.
Same for me, they sound really good but they lack quality in everything else.

I agree they all sound good (I have a system 1m in my Eurorack so run them in the hardware as all plugs in demo mode play without limitation in the hardware once plugged out- untiol you turn it off!) but I prefer Diva and Legend in Software, but perhaps that is as much to do with the GUI (not just the look, but the use) as it is the sound, and if I want a 101 type sound, I go for LUSH rather than the Roland 101as it can do so much more and is (the Roland plugs are limited by design for authenticity, personally I don't care if it sounds exactly like something else, I just care if the sound fits my need/mix)

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:17 pm

waltercruz wrote:... the sound of Roland plugins is real good.

It's basically the only thing good they have. But that sound quality comes at a price, and you pay that price in CPU cycles, limited polyphony, limited features (too faithful to the originals for today's standards), and a GUI which doesn't allow resizing without blurring. And they even lack a patch browser and manager

AND, on top of that, they are expensive, like in the top range of price expensive. And some of them are even only availale through subscription of the cloud, currently, which makes them even more expensive.

So, I guess we'll better wait until Roland decide if they want to really invest in this market, and do things the proper way, or if they will give up, like they did countless times before, after a short period, and when the enthusiasm cools down.

Let's wait and see.

krismiller1982 · Post by **krismiller1982** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:51 am

Well... the D-50 Plugout version just dropped a few minutes ago and all I can say is I'm so happy I sh$t my pants!!! Woohooo!!!

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:56 am

Can you post some screenshots? The image in the Roland Cloud catalog only shows what seems to be the original D-50 keyboard control panel, which would be a really silly option for a computer GUI.

Also, some information about CPU comsumption, GUI resizing and patch borwsing/management (fro this and all the other plug-outs) would be appreciated

beely · Post by **beely** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:15 am

CPU is very light.

The more modern patches included are pretty good.

Making the gui larger doesn't seem to blur it as on the earlier plugs - it still looks good!

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:26 am

Its a pity that due to Roland's asinine Cloud Only Policy- 'everything or nothing'.... few people will get to own this, it actually looks pretty good.

sinemotor · Post by **sinemotor** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:22 pm

From what they say, their model is a rent-to-own. So after 12 months you'll get that D-50 for free.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:06 pm

This seems to be a classic example of big corporate product development (with a mixed dose of cluelessness) where the goal is to make the product as sh1t to use as possible and still get away with.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:08 pm

sinemotor wrote:From what they say, their model is a rent-to-own. So after 12 months you'll get that D-50 for free.

At $20,00 a month (for now, plan is to raise it to $30,00) it would mean paying $240,00 for it. Too much, IMO.