Compliments on New Composition Tools

[gesslr]

Dev Team:

Just got around to trying out the new composition tools. Serious compliments on the implementation. It works really well so far and is damn useful -- particularly if (like me) brushing up on theory is something you want to do (without being smacked over the head with it).

Intelligently implemented. Thanks.

G

[chico.co.uk]

I also like these a lot. I've not quite got around to creating some of my own patterns, and playing with them remapping to appropriate keys, but if that works as expected, I can see myself relying pretty heavily on this as a quick sketch tool, and to try out different ideas. I'd like to be able to stretch the patterns longer than a bar, because I'd sometimes have 2 bar patterns that hang on the same key, but expect that will come

[Didas_94]

Hi,

yes it's a great feature. And if Devs can implement LUA or another script language to enhanced this item by great tradition musician.

[FigBug]

Hi Guys,

I had a lot of fun working on this feature -- I'm glad you guys like it.

When creating patterns longer than a bar, it will be broken up into sections each a bar in length. You can just use the same chord twice in a row. I understand it may be better to be a bit more flexible -- ie create a pattern that has chord changes after: 6 beats, 2 beats, 4 beats, etc. Not sure how to do that without building a custom pattern editor. I'd be interested in hearing back after you've used it for a month or two, if that actually is a limitation that is slowing you down.

I'd also be interested in hearing what you would like to do via scripting. We do have a Javascript engine, so maybe if what you want to do isn't too complicated, we could expose the pattern generator to Javascript.

[gesslr]

Excellent.

Will be sure to provide some feedback.

Again, nice work!

G

[gesslr]

A new video on these tools have been posted. Gives a good overview of the toolset and options. Very helpful.

[Spitfire31]

I was really attracted by the innovative composition tools in Tracktion 8/Waveform. So attracted, in fact, that I was ready to forget all the crashes and idiosyncracies that made me delete Tracktion 4 and 5 on my Mac OS machines.

So, full of expectation and good will, I downloaded the latest demo of Waveform, rolled up my sleeves and dove straight into it. I was a bit surprised that Option/Alt + drag didn't allow me to make copies of a selected clip, as the convention is in Mac OS, but what the heck…

Instead, I selected a couple of adjacent MIDI clips using Shift and tried to drag them. Immediate poof crash! Just like that, Waveform just ceased to be, like it had never been there.

Up and running again after restoring the Edit, I added a Kontakt 5.6 instrument track with Soniccoutures beautiful vibraphone instrument and recorded a clip. So far so good. Then I played it back and was shocked to hear the vibra's soulful sustains replaced by cowbell like envelopes.

What's going on? Trying to record a new take, the vibra sounded just as useless when played from my keyboard! Apparently, Waveform did something to Kontakt's envelopes (and yes, the MIDI notes in the graphic display were just as sustained as I played them).

I then recorded a similar clip in Live 9, using the same instrument exactly. No problems, of course.

I really wanted to give Tracktion another chance, but I don't have the time nor the inclination to beta test what should at the very minimum be a perfectly stable software, in its 8th iteration.

I'm out, and for good this time. Good luck, guys – you're gonna need it.

/Joachim

[chico.co.uk]

Bye! Take a couple of others with you too, there's a good chap.

[solomute]

still reaper's note editor seems better because you can zoom it to the entire screen while tracktion's note editor window can't take all space. also what drives you crazy is that you can't drag the notes on the left end, only you can do it on the right. Another shortcoming is that there is no built-in automation for bypass for plugins. You can automate bypass only if the plugin has some kind of bypass and generally those plugins' bypass elements are so crappy that when you automate them you get clicks at playback and rendering in the places where bypass becomes on\off. Due to this hell you have to create 2 additional automation tracks with wet and dry to be able to switch off the plugins.

[AGreen]

still reaper's note editor seems better because you can zoom it to the entire screen while tracktion's note editor window can't take all space. also what drives you crazy is that you can't drag the notes on the left end, only you can do it on the right. Another shortcoming is that there is no built-in automation for bypass for plugins. You can automate bypass only if the plugin has some kind of bypass and generally those plugins' bypass elements are so crappy that when you automate them you get clicks at playback and rendering in the places where bypass becomes on\off. Due to this hell you have to create 2 additional automation tracks with wet and dry to be able to switch off the plugins.

You can zoom to the entire screen. Unpin the midi editor by clicking the pin symbol in the left hand corner of the editor. You can also drag notes at the left side. I don't know what you're doing to prevent this but it most definitely works on my machine.

[solomute]

Great! I like waveform more and more! May be you can also explain why do i get lower effect level if i move a plugin to another track and route the signal to it via stereo pass thru. someone told me here that i can use 2 copies of stereo pass thru to overcome lack of buses (only 16). But this method does not work right though i do everything according to the manual ie changing dry and wet for sending instance of stereo pass thru. so the problem to be more clear is that for example I have a guitar vst and a reverb vst in the filter section of track 1. So i create track 2 and move reverb vst to filter section of track 2 and put instance 1 of stereo pass thru before solo\mute on track 1 and copy stereo pass thru as instance 2 to track 2. and change wet\dry for instance 1 as needed. After these manipulation reverb still works but its effect is about 10 times weaker! I have to modify the reverb settings to get the effect stronger and still it's weaker... how can i fix it?

[AGreen]

Great! I like waveform more and more! May be you can also explain why do i get lower effect level if i move a plugin to another track and route the signal to it via stereo pass thru. someone told me here that i can use 2 copies of stereo pass thru to overcome lack of buses (only 16). But this method does not work right though i do everything according to the manual ie changing dry and wet for sending instance of stereo pass thru. so the problem to be more clear is that for example I have a guitar vst and a reverb vst in the filter section of track 1. So i create track 2 and move reverb vst to filter section of track 2 and put instance 1 of stereo pass thru before solo\mute on track 1 and copy stereo pass thru as instance 2 to track 2. and change wet\dry for instance 1 as needed. After these manipulation reverb still works but its effect is about 10 times weaker! I have to modify the reverb settings to get the effect stronger and still it's weaker... how can i fix it?

Yes, it will be weaker. When you use a reverb on an audio track you might have the wet/dry levels set at say 50% each. When you move the reverb to an aux track you will need to set the reverb wet level to 100% and dry to 0%, then change the aux track volume level so the reverb and dry signal are the same level. This will produce the same 50% wet/dry mix.

You also need to make sure the sending rack is set to 100% dry, 0% wet and the receiving rack set to 100% wet 0% dry.

[dRowAudio]

also what drives you crazy is that you can't drag the notes on the left end, only you can do it on the right

I'm not quite sure what you mean here? As long as a note isn't tiny (in which case dragging the left edge will move the note), you should be able to resize notes by dragging their left edge. Perhaps try horizontally zooming in a bit?

[zzz00m]

Dev Team:

Just got around to trying out the new composition tools. Serious compliments on the implementation. It works really well so far and is damn useful -- particularly if (like me) brushing up on theory is something you want to do (without being smacked over the head with it).

Intelligently implemented. Thanks.

G

+1

As a first timer to Tracktion with the new Waveform, I've just got to say this thing is really useful!

I wasn't looking for a new DAW or audio editor, as I am happy with what I have, but the lack of a musical scratchpad had me looking for some composition tools.

I have been playing around with AIR Ignite, which is fast for putting musical ideas down into clips and arranging them, but lacks a bit on the music theory side. The real killer with Ignite is there is no way to bring MIDI into it, or to use any VST instruments. The included sounds aren't bad, but there is no way to know how your MIDI will sound with your other VST instruments when exported.

A long time Tracktion user pointed me to this recent Waveform release, and I'm good to go now! It's amazing how quick it is to get some ideas rolling now!

[solomute]

to Agreen
Well, something is wrong with waveform's routing via busses or stereo pass thru. Imagine i have a track 1 with guitar vst, track 2 with amplifier, track 3 with a guitar cabinet vst. I send signal via pass thru from track 1 to track 2 for amplification and via aux send from track 1 to track 3 for processing singnal by the cabinet vst. All three tracks are set to output to default master out. So i have noticed that track 3 gets non-amplified signal. So as far as i understand both busses or stereo pass thru solutions (track 2 and 3) output signal not back to track 1 but to the default master output. In other words regardless of how many aux sends or pass thrus you have in the filter section of track 1 all of them get the signal from the guitar vst instead of getting signal from the previous auxsend\pass thru, in other words though these auxsends and pass thrus go one after another, they ARE NOT CHAINED into one chain. That's kind of wierd. A user would normally expect that the signal woud be routed back from tracks 2 and 3 for futher processing by other vsts or auxsends\passthrus in the filter section but instead the signal goes to the master output. All this renders busses\passthrus concept senseless and you have to put several instances\copies of the same vst to get normal operation and processing. Of course i could set track 2 to have target destination to track 3 but in this case, if i have another guitar vst on track 4 and i want the signal from track 4 to be amplified on track 2 but not processed by the cabinet vst on track 3 this becomes impossible since track 2 has target destination to track 3. So will have to have two instances of the amplifier to have that problem solved. What's the point in using busses then? No point at all or i don't know the secret way how to route signal back from busses on track 2 and 3 to track 1 and 4.