KVR Audio

Faland · Post by **Faland** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:48 pm

Hi there,
I put a couple of Sonimus plugs on sale in this forum and I found a buyer for both. The two of us have contacted the developers to start the license transfer but no replays at all. We opened two different tickets on their site. No answer. Now the buyer moved on and I lost the sell.

On their FAQ they clearly allow transfers but there's no explanation of how to pay the 20% fees to them.
This is really disturbing. No attention at all to old and new customers.
There's no wonder so many people looks at warez softwares.
Just to let you know...

Finally a mention to Quinto Sardo, Sknote owner, who's always very kind and doesn't require any fees for transfer (or NFR amenity)

Lesha · Post by **Lesha** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:51 pm

Could be they are on an Easter holiday?

Faland · Post by **Faland** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:56 pm

I don't think so, because the requests were sent several days ago.

soulone82 · Post by **soulone82** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:23 pm

What exactly do you have for sale? I am always interested in Sonimus gear...

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:27 pm

Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...

Faland · Post by **Faland** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:41 pm

soulone82 wrote:What exactly do you have for sale? I am always interested in Sonimus gear...

Burnley 73 and Britson.

Faland · Post by **Faland** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:47 pm

Googly Smythe wrote:Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...

...Or a second-hand one that becomes NFR!

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:27 pm

Googly Smythe wrote:Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...

It has been said many times, that with software you're not buying a product, but the license to use it. So you're basically selling a second hand license. You can never own or resell the software itself, unless you buy the source code and the right to distribute licenses.

Rappo Clappo · Post by **Rappo Clappo** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:37 pm

Googly Smythe wrote:Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...

Only because Ford doesn't have to put any effort in it.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:11 pm

izonin wrote:
Googly Smythe wrote:Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...
It has been said many times, that with software you're not buying a product, but the license to use it. So you're basically selling a second hand license. You can never own or resell the software itself, unless you buy the source code and the right to distribute licenses.

Actually this is why most EULA are not worth the time it takes to read them, they are not legally binding, all this buying a licence nonsense is total trash.

The wording needs to be changed to rental or lease for this to be binding, but no developer wants to put the words rent or lease on their sales page do they.

There is currently a massive legal bubble around software development that is stretched to maximum and will soon burst, it wont effect what you pay or use, but you will no longer be saying "I bought X"

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:10 am

I bought Sweetone from someone in the Buy & Sell about a year ago - it took several weeks and a bunch of email reminders (from the seller) to get it actioned. Even SKnote transfers have been smoother for me

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:05 am

They're smart cookies, I'd love to sell my Satson but for the peanuts I'd get for it it's not worth weeks of emails.

Son chicos muuuuuuy listos.

Faland · Post by **Faland** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:04 am

MogwaiBoy wrote:I bought Sweetone from someone in the Buy & Sell about a year ago - it took several weeks and a bunch of email reminders (from the seller) to get it actioned. Even SKnote transfers have been smoother for me

So I have to add Sonimus to the list of developers who make great sounding plugins but dealing with very little care of their customers and potential ones.

shroom81 · Post by **shroom81** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:16 am

I'm in the same situation with Waldorf, thinking this might be because of Musikmesse and Superbooth being held so close to each other.

FabienTDR · Post by **FabienTDR** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:50 pm

izonin wrote:
Googly Smythe wrote:Software must be the only time that the original seller wants a cut of the second-hand sale. Imagine Ford insisting on a 15% fee when you buy a second-hand car...
It has been said many times, that with software you're not buying a product, but the license to use it. So you're basically selling a second hand license.

It's not that easy. When you buy a software license for perpetual use, you own the license (not the product itself of course). And you, and only YOU own the license. It's your propriety, the software seller really has no rights left over this specific license, it's really yours. And you can resell it anytime, without any fee.

If you are from the EU or the seller is from the EU in particular, these practices are straight invalid (and extremely shady!). I'm also aware of more than one case were US software companies had to open gates for license transfer (for perpetual licenses), but don't know the details.

Consequences

This decision does not mean only that software developers cannot prevent second hand sales of their software by their European licensees. It means software licence agreements and all their terms and conditions (not just the one prohibiting transfer) can be ignored by European courts if the licence period is indefinite, and probably even if it is tied to the lengthy period of copyright in Europe - 70 years after death of last surviving programmer. Such a licence will be regarded as a simple sale and sales of personal property cannot be tagged with conditions on how the property can be used.

This means, for example, that if a licence for software to be downloaded has an indefinite or long period then the usual restrictions or obligations placed on a licensee as a condition for granting the licence such as number of servers, server location, confidentiality, security, field of use, termination for breach will all be unenforceable.

Quoted from from here: http://www.lexology.com/library/detail. ... 8afd8b3380

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120 ... cant.shtml

Too bad Sonimus!