Youlean Loudness Meter 2 - V2.5.10 - November 10, 2024 update

[Compyfox]

So you're already working on v2?
Will this still remain free of charge?
What are plans for the future?

[Youlean]

So you're already working on v2?
Will this still remain free of charge?
What are plans for the future?

Yes, new GUI is coming by Voger design and some new features too. New plugin will have all functions that previous had + some new functions and it will be free and there will be some new features that will be paid, as I need to support future development somehow.

[Compyfox]

Oh-kay... so much for V1 (incl fixes for the hosts that could use this plugin best) and "remains free"...

What price range are we talking about?

[Youlean]

Oh-kay... so much for V1 (incl fixes for the hosts that could use this plugin best) and "remains free"...

What price range are we talking about?

I don't understand. Is this is rant for not updating V1?

[Compyfox]

No, it's not.

However, I'm not the least surprised at this point either that you made first place (you made first place for both Win and Mac - so theoretically 60% of the DC2016 price fund - went to NAMM even, where we've users/voters have YET TO SEE a report on), said that "the Metering Tool will remain free" - but in order to fix all bugs, v2 needs to be addressed and it won't be free anymore.

Best marketing there is - you can't argue with that.


Maybe it's a bit salty (definitely no doubt about that!) - but I should have known better that this was a too-good-to-be-true plugin offering. Proper metering tools do cost serious money after all (this is borderline sarcasm, btw! I know the market...) - why should this be any different other than maybe making the ITU-R BS.1770-x specs (and all it's current deviations of that) accessible to everyone.



So once again, please- what price range are we talking about for the "pro features" (whatever those will be)?
50USD? 100USD? 500USD?

[Aloysius]

My interpretation:

Poster expects a NAMM report from you in relation to 'Youlean Loudness Meter - KVR DC 2016'. You got votes and money. You ''owe'' the community.

V1 of the Plug has bugs but it seems you are not going to fix them. Instead, you are going to release V2 which will be a commercial product. V1 will remain free but will never be fixed.

How much will V2 cost?

[Youlean]

No, it's not.

However, I'm not the least surprised at this point either that you made first place (went to NAMM even, where we've users/voters have YET TO SEE a report on), said that "the Metering Tool will remain free" - but in order to fix all bugs, v2 needs to be addressed and it won't be free anymore.

Best marketing there is - you can't argue with that.


Maybe it's a bit salty - but I should have known better that this was a too-good-to-be-true plugin offering. Proper metering tools cost serious money (this is sarcasm, btw!) - why should this be any different other than maybe making the ITU-R BS.1770-x specs (and all it's current deviations of that) accessible to everyone.



So once again, please- what price range are we talking about for the "pro features" (whatever those will be)?
50USD? 100USD? 500USD?

I am really sorry that you got this impression about me. I am looking what will be the best for the users. I am looking to update this plugin long time into a future and this requires time/money strategy. I am working every day (including weekends) to fix all bugs and implement new features since February. Because Developer challenge was so short there where many things that where coded quickly and because of that many things where needed to be rewritten from a ground up and that's why there is no new update since January.

Anyways, V2 will be free too + there will be some "pro" options. I see nothing bad about this, as you won't loose anything. If you look in other way I can just stop developing the plugin (like most KVR entries do) and then what..?

I posted some content on my Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/itsYoulean/
Also I posted on KVR forum too: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=470129&start=435#p6697337

I can't tell you anything about the price for the "pro" features.

[Compyfox]

Let me get some things clear before people start to accusing me of certain things again...

Poster expects a NAMM report from you in relation to 'Youlean Loudness Meter - KVR DC 2016'. You got votes and money. You ''owe'' the community.

Not quite:
1) KVR is supposed to do the NAMM coverage in this case. THEY offered the prices, and THEY offered the spot at NAMM. Why do interviews about other devs, but not the "winner" that literally represented KVR AUDIO at Winter NAMM?

1b) on that behalf, we still don't know who picked up the remaining 10% price fond wild card, but this just as OT sidenote

2) Yes, the dev got a lot of votes and pretty much made the jackpot, thanks to the KVR users. So he does kind of "owe" the community. Steinberg tools (Wavelab included) have just as much of a raison d'être than FL Studio. In fact, the Youlean Loudness Meter is supposed to be a tool for streaming and mastering, yet it does not work in a mastering environment (Wavelab). I gave the developer most of my points anyway in hope that this will be fixed and is but an engine faux pas (IIRC it was written in iPlug, known to cause the one or another issue in Steinberg hosts). Now I'm regretting that decision - since it's (to me) a broken tool I can't really use other than in Cubase.

V1 of the Plug has bugs but it seems you are not going to fix them. Instead, you are going to release V2 which will be a commercial product. V1 will remain free but will never be fixed.

This is the impression I'm getting - correct.
Wouldn't be the first developer either that goes that route.

I am really sorry that you got this impression about me. I am looking what will be the best for the users. I am looking to update this plugin long time into a future and this requires time/money strategy. I am working every day (including weekends) to fix all bugs and implement new features since February. Because Developer challenge was so short there where many things that where coded quickly and because of that many things where needed to be rewritten from a ground up and that's why there is no new update since January.

I'm a beta tester for various companies, I am aware of possible issues / compatibility problems that are hard to solve.

HOWEVER... I find it not okay to say "screw this, let's go V2 directly - and put some advanced features behind a paywall - oh btw - I'm not sure yet how much I will ask for it". That is not "what's best for the users", IMO.

You're at what?
v1.0.5 - and you've already announced v2.0 within 3,5 months of it's existence!

Anyways, V2 will be free too + there will be some "pro" options. I see nothing bad about this, as you won't loose anything. If you look in other way I can just stop developing the plugin (like most KVR entries do) and then what..?

Sorry - invalid argument IMO.

Looking at third place "Musical Entropy" or old challenge entrants Ignite Amps and Variety of Sound... they continued their work and released more and more tools in the process. Ignite Amps gets income via donations and their hardware however, Variety of Sound always refused donations. He only wanted to change the game. And Musical Entropy? Maybe there is a donation button on his page, but I didn't find ANYTHING yet. Oh and AXP/SoftAmp? All of his stuff is also free (since 2014 actually! to 99% bugfree even), but also offers a donation button.

In fact, Musical Entropy fully decked out his DC2014 entry "Guitar Gadgets" since then, and also fixed most bugs in the progress. AXP/Softamp dropped a couple of plugins in between, vladg's NOVA-67 got updated to fix all bugs (even got a new UI and was even updated parallel to NOVA GE under the Tokyo Dawn Labs branch). And to my knowledge "EPICENTRE" got updated/ported into native x64 as well (but I lost track of it).

You see where this is going?


Yes - I am fully aware that "income" is an issue at this day and age. But honestly... this whole thing feels like an "LE release" now - and you somewhat confirmed this yourself with the comment "too less time, too many bugs".

That sadly happened SEVERAL TIMES with previous Developer Challenge entries before as well. "It's a stepping stone for me". Well, yeah... but at least for companies like vladg, the tools were fixed BEFORE they evolved their tools and created so called "pro versions".



I mean - let's be serious for a moment.
The only new thing that we know off currently(!), is the enhanced UI resizing capability.

We don't know what else is planned, what the supposed "pro features" will be, what kind of copy protection will be used (if there will be any copy protection - which will open it's own can of worms). And you're not even sure of a price yet! But you expect from us users, that made it possible for you to get access to the jackpot in the first place, that we swallow that piece of info already, wait another 3-4 months, and then jump on a (possible feature crippled) v2 where we can't even know if it's bugfree as well?!

You can't be serious.

I posted some content on my Facebook page here: <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://www.facebook.com/itsYoulean</span>/
Also I posted on KVR forum too: <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">viewtopic.php?f=91&t=470129&start=435#p6697337</span>

Not everyone has Facebook. And honestly, what I saw on on there just a minute ago - is not even scratching the dirt on the surface!

It's just a video of you being artsy in Anaheim (26th Feb), and a picture of the panel you spoke at (20th Jan). Then two videos of "working additional scaling functions" of the UI (7th Feb and 1st March), and thanking Computer Music Magazine for an article of your plugin (yesterday, 15th Apr).

The link to the other KVR thread? It's just a "Check out my Facebook account!".
Oh wow!

I can't tell you anything about the price for the "pro" features.

This is what you should have thought about PRIOR to your just made... er... "announcement".
IMO and all that.





Honestly - the last couple of posts sadden me. Such a pity from a promising developer with a very, very good metering tool. But I guess this is now the end of the line. At least for the time being (for me!).

I like to be positively surprised though. Until then, I'm going back to my cave...

[Youlean]

Thanks Compyfox for this long explanation. I have made a decision not to release new version before I change many things internally and that is it. Now there is no going back. It is really pointless to argue about V2 before I have even released it. I know very well how much will be V2 priced, but I won't tell you as it might change for various reasons.

As KVR coverage goes, I am not required to post anything, this is just my good will. If you are unsatisfied with a coverage though you can blame KVR stuff as this is their competition.

Musical Entropy got 10% of the prize BTW.

[Youlean]

Also to be clear why this is going to be V2 instead of V1.X.X:
If it remained V1 all saved project would become broken for ALL users that updated the plugin. This would happen because of bugfixes for Wavelab and bugfixes for Cubase (VST3). In the other hand I could release V2 with just bugfixes, but this will confuse users a lot... This was the problem.

I will will release first BETA version (1.5) very, very soon with all bugfixes and no "pro" features, so you will be able to try it out.

[Compyfox]

Thanks Compyfox for this long explanation. I have made a decision not to release new version before I change many things internally and that is it. Now there is no going back. It is really pointless to argue about V2 before I have even released it.

Maybe it's pointless to argue - but honestly...
Now you have announced it, so now it is a topic to talk about.

I know very well how much will be V2 priced, but I won't tell you as it might change for various reasons.

Which is why I asked of "what range" we're talking about, not a definite MSRP.

People want to know this in advance, see if they can further support the development or if things simply come to a grinding halt. The market is oversaturated with plugins, a lot of it has become shovel ware evne. So looking a bit closer under the hood, being skeptical, is as important as ever.

As KVR coverage goes, I am not required to post anything, this is just my good will. If you are unsatisfied with a coverage though you can blame KVR stuff as this is their competition.

Which is why I said, that KVR has to do that first and foremost, not you. I should have worded that differently in my earlier post.

Musical Entropy got 10% of the prize BTW.

Wow... an edit that nobody saw... well then...

Still you made 60% of the cut, plus the "Joker"... and you're now talking "pro version" and "v2" already - which brings this current discussion full circle.

You have to admit - that's definitely a smart move to get your company off the ground.

Also to be clear why this is going to be V2 instead of V1.X.X:
If it remained V1 all saved project would become broken for ALL users that updated the plugin. This would happen because of bugfixes for Wavelab and bugfixes for Cubase (VST3). In the other hand I could release V2 with just bugfixes, but this will confuse users a lot... This was the problem.

I've seen plenty of released v1.x's that broke backwards compatibility.
But okay...

I will will release first BETA version (1.5) very, very soon with all bugfixes and no "pro" features, so you will be able to try it out.

It's still "end of the line" though... and this tells me that I'll only be wasting my time with a v1.5. If it will even work, that is. If it's still not working, I am forced to go v2.

Again, we don't know what features will be added, which will be "pay-walled" in v2 - you're keeping a tight lock and key about so far. Though I still remember that you once told "remains free as long as possible". Just didn't expect it to be that soon to be honest.

Again - not the first time that this has happened in the audio realm. But definitely a developer move I'd rather not support (anymore). Been burned way too often with that.

[bmanic]

Also to be clear why this is going to be V2 instead of V1.X.X:
If it remained V1 all saved project would become broken for ALL users that updated the plugin. This would happen because of bugfixes for Wavelab and bugfixes for Cubase (VST3). In the other hand I could release V2 with just bugfixes, but this will confuse users a lot... This was the problem.

This sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It's actually the preferred method in these kinds of cases.

[sfxsound3]

I see a language barrier here.

Youlean said that v2 will be free AND will fix bugs from v1 AND improve a lot of things. AND will have some pro features which will be payware. AND development will continue for both the free and paid versions - bugfixes and new features.

So what's wrong with that?

Compyfox, do you expect to get "THE BEST" loudness meter and lifetime updates for free?

[murnau]

I see a language barrier here.

Youlean said that v2 will be free AND will fix bugs from v1 AND improve a lot of things. AND will have some pro features which will be payware. AND development will continue for both the free and paid versions - bugfixes and new features.

So what's wrong with that?

Compyfox, do you expect to get "THE BEST" loudness meter and lifetime updates for free?

I understand it the same way: Every feature we have in v1 will be in v2 + bug fixes (and maybe a little more ). But be it as it will, just because v2 will have some pro features you anyway wouldn't have in v1 that hassle?

[Compyfox]

Compyfox, do you expect to get "THE BEST" loudness meter and lifetime updates for free?

First and foremost - this is not "the best" metering tool out there, and it probably never will be. It's definitely one of the better ones that are *cough* affordable (still!) though.

I don't expect anything, other than honesty. And we got that "honesty" all right.


So no, there is no language barrier going on here.
- I am fully aware that development takes time, and in (most cases) also money
- I am fully aware that "updates" can break backward compatibility (if it's announced properly, no problem - this plugin doesn't hold any meticulous modulation settings, so updating and "breaking previously workign things" is no problem!)
- I was fully aware (at the time of the DC2016 voting period) that this is just the beginning of things, and that this tool "might"(!!!) cost something later down the road

What I did not(!) expect however, that it's happening so soon.


What ticks all the wrong buttons with me, is the sneaky behavior of the developer. He made the first place out of nowhere, therefore snatched the majority of the price, visited NAMM and represented not only himself but also KVR Audio. Then merely 4 months later, he's like... "well yeah, things broke in the update, oh and btw.. the next update gets a couple more features/enhanced features that will cost to unlock... but I can't tell you yet what that will be, and how much it will cost".

And this is what drives me up the walls.

Instead of ironing out bugs first (hey, it works in FL Studio, a recording/mixing environment, so that should suffice - no?!), we already talk about a v2 that will be split into "LE" (beta even) and "Pro" with unknown features (not to mention which will be "pay-walled"), price and copy protection. So the DC2016 was (for this developer) a huge promotion boost and start capital - and we ultimately used a "run down version" (well - at least it's not a rule violation like "AutoTonic Player", which was a "rundown version" of a previously released "pro version"). And the just announced v1.5 "beta" will be nothing else... a beta.



Now compared to other winning developers/companies in recent years... we also saw the occasional "pro version" down the road (under a new brand for vladg, actually over a year later!), but the "LE" versions were at least fully decked out and bugfixed first (or in parallel to the "pro version" release) before anything further happened.


Then again - what do I know... I'm no programmer, I'm just an Audio Engineer. I don't know of licenses for programming tools, though I definitely know of time investments.

One way or another... this is DEFINITELY food for thought.
And as mentioned several times at this point, I will remain skeptical about future releases.



Such a pity...