Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

[Richard_Synapse]

Hopefully not. Obies sound dull as f**k to me. I've never understood the fascination. Personally, i'd like something else. Luckily, my opinion counts for nothing, so dont get ya panties in a knot

Which ones did you try? Vintage Oberheims cover a wide range of different circuit topologies, some are full of Curtis (CEM) chips, usually with 24dB lowpass filters, while others like the SEM have "that" classic 12dB Oberheim state-variable filter inside (which I presume is what people associate with Oberheim sound, dunno though). I would expect most or all of the vintage models to sound very different from each other. So far the ones I have tried are all of the Curtis type, like the Matrix line, which I like soundwise.

Richard

[egbert101]

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[egbert101]

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[Ingonator]

This is exactly what I was trying to find out recently in this thread (see Comparison videos from page 19 on). I didn't get the answers I was seeking, but a lot of unnecessary information instead.

I pointed out details about the differences in the circuits also to make clear that there are differences between the Oberheim synths. Again, the CEM chips are NOT just repackaged SEM filters.

I also mentioended that technically the OB-Xa/OB-8 seems to be closer to the Prophet 5 Rev. 3 than to the OB-X as the OB-8/Xa use similar chips. Anyway even when similar chips are used they still could sound different when used in different synths as the circuits where the chips are embedded could be different.
Those chips are just one part of all that.

At the CEM3320 filter designs page you coud nicely see how the same chip is embedded in different circuits:
http://electricdruid.net/cem3320-filter-designs/

As was also mentioend just the fact that two Lowpass filters share a 12dB/oct slope does not mean they also sound similar, especially at higher resonance. Resonance behavior seems to be the main difference with analog filters.

FWIW the only CEM based synth i am owning myself at the moment is an Ensoniq ESQ-1 which uses the CEM3379 chip that besides the filter also includes a VCA and a dual mixer (the ESQ-1 could do stereo panning). It seems to be very close to the filter found in teh CEM3372 that is also used in the Obrerheim Matrix-12/XPander while teh filter in teh Matrix-12 is much more complex with lots of filter modes (which is due to the circuits the CEM3372 chip is embedded where in ESQ-1/SQ-80 it is used as a simple 24dB LPF). ESQ-1 uses pure digital Oscs instead of VCOs like in Martrix-12 which could make a bigger difference.
The sum of the parts is what makes the overall sound of a synth. For example teh fact that Diva includes the Oscillators of the Roland JP-8000 will not make it a proper emulation as the rest of the JP-8000 synth engine is not emulated. On the other hand Diva includes analog filters based on the Jupiter 8 and 6 which do not sound really similar too.)

In the past i also owned an Oberheim Matrix 1000 that uses the CEM3396 chip which basically includes the whole synth engine with ocillators, analog filter and VCA ín a single chip. This is why that CEM chip is also called a "Synth in a chip" design.

[HunterKiller]

Xa and 8 sound like VSTis compared to the X
They seem to get progressively worse.

[egbert101]

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[Ingonator]

It indeed seems to be difficult to tell what THE Oberheim sound really is. Seems to be more related to specifc famous patches than to sound and feature sets.

Many seem to claim that the SEM based/inspired synths are the only "real" Oberheims.
My personal taste would go more towards a Matrix-12 or OB-Xa i guess which are both based on CEM chips.
The new OB-6 looks great too while i have not played with it yet.

Sound and/or circuit wise you might sort the Oberheim synths in three main groups with a few sub-groups:
A) SEM based and/or "inspired":
- SEM (monophonic) + 2 Voice + 4 Voice + 8 Voice
- OB-X
- OB-6 (new synth by Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim)

B) CEM chips based:
- OB-Xa + OB-8
- OB-SX (mostly a presets based synth, different revisons close to either OB-X o OB-Xa circuits)
- Matrix-12 + Xpander
- Matrix-6 + Matrix-1000

C) Not directly related to the "classic" Oberheim synths and/or built after Oberheim was closed:
- OB-Mx (built aroud 1994 ; the filters do not seem directly related to the other vintage Oberheim filters)
- OB-12 (fully digital DSP based VA synth with lots of knobs and faders built by Viscount back in the year 2000)

[chk071]

Xa and 8 sound like VSTis compared to the X
They seem to get progressively worse.

Any of these would be fine for me, i guess. As long as it's not the SEM (another plugin mono synth... ugh...).

Amazing how much the Matrix-1000 prices went up BTW. I remember seeing one 5 or 6 years ago, for 150 €... now they seem to average at 700-800 €.

[egbert101]

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[chk071]

Ya, meant the mono SEM of course. It sounds good, but, monophonic sucks, especially in plugin synths. I really see no reason for it.

[Ingonator]

Ya, meant the mono SEM of course. It sounds good, but, monophonic sucks, especially in plugin synths. I really see no reason for it.

As mentioned earlier Arturia SEM could do up to 32 voices and in the advanced settings you got a "8 voice programmer" to program up to 6 parameters differently for 8 voices (parameters for each of the 6 selectable from a drop-down list).
This also includes multiple modes about how to cycle trough the voices.

The latest version SEM V2 besides and updated GUI also includes an Arpeggiator, a mod matrix and some effects.

As mentioend earlier no option for Unison yet while with the 8 voice programmer you could program the fine tuning and the stereo spread of the voices.

As the plugin has more than 8 voices available (while the programmer is limited to 8 ) you should not run out of voices with long envelope release.

You might say the Arturia plugin is not perfect but it would be wrong to ignore it exists...
Same is true for e.g. Arturia Matrix-12 and Sonicprojects OP-X Pro II.
Not to forget the free OB-Xd which i really like since it was released.

Last but not least there is the "Uhbie" filter in U-He Diva which seems to be inspired by the morphable SEM multimode filter.

[chk071]

Yeah, i use OB-Xd sometimes. Still would be nice to see an emu from Synapse. See it's all cool, but, A/B'ing against a real model (OB-Xd wasn't), and with the possibilities Synapse, or u-he have, also coding wise, is a different level.

[Ingonator]

Yeah, i use OB-Xd sometimes. Still would be nice to see an emu from Synapse. See it's all cool, but, A/B'ing against a real model (OB-Xd wasn't), and with the possibilities Synapse, or u-he have, also coding wise, is a different level.

As there was no dedicated OB-Xa or OB-8 emulation yet i would be interested in that. OP-X is just not the same as it emulates the SEM based circuits, same about Arturia SEM.

While there is alraedy a Matrix-12 from Arturia that i really like i would not mind someone doing another MAtrix-12 (or Xpander) emulation. Feature and/or complexity wise the Matrix-12 seemed to be the flagship of the Oberheim synths and sound wise it seemed to be great too. Some of the many filter modes are especially great for pads like e.g. the "3Phase" modes. In terms of being versatile none of the other Oberheim synths could come remotely close to the Matrix-12, this also includes the modulation options.


Anyway one synth i would really look forward to be emulated is the Alesis Andromeda A6.

[DuX]

Immensely interesting discussion guys. But it also reminds me that I'm not a spring chicken any more. Far from it.

Anyway, these days I would absolutely settle for Matrix-1000 or Matrix 6 that I used to own... or OB12 I used to own so much nice gear, one could buy a house and a car with if sold today. It was worth 10x less than today. It's a kind of madness, actually. We should be looking forward, not backward. Progress instead of stagnation.

Times are different. I only have regrets when reading threads like this on KvR or GS [that freaks me out those guys]. It really is so convenient to make music with only a couple of outboard synths and generally just soft synths. We should all focus more on the music and creativity anyway, not so much the sound, if you know what I mean. It's like focusing on having the fastest car, while not being able to drive it.

Thanks Ingo for your wonderful posts! Not that you said something I didn't know, but it feels nice reading about it. I like your "teh"!

[egbert101]

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