Using modes with major/minor scales

[Yannu94]

Hi guys,

I’m working on a track in C Major and would like to add a bridge with a guitar or synth solo…

How can I use modes to create a cool guitar solo, for example with the mixolydian scale?
Is it even possible to mix modes with major and minor scales?

Thanks in advance.

[jancivil]

you can mix them with scales, do as you like is the whole of the law unless you're adhering to a style with procedures that determine that style.

the thing about 'major/minor' is, when you use the usual harmonic paradigm along with it, the meaning of say 'Mixolydian' tends to be hard to preserve. Let's say you stick with your C as base tone and now you introduce Bb for the guitar solo. The very chord that results on C, C7 here has a tendency which, along with other tendencies may seem to want to resolve to F.
By itself, if the music you're doing coming into this move is more static, not moving or not moving much or eschewing strong root movement, it can just sit there without becoming V7 of F. But if you're not careful or you don't have the right experience and maybe you've decided to follow the usual music theory class type of harmonies, where C7 acts like a dominant seventh harmony (of F), C Mixolydian is out the window.

A typical thing to do with Mixolydian is, going with C as home again, is vamp with C to Bb chords. Even C Bb F C.
But once you're doing even that many chords, C7 can feel like V7 after Bb feels like IV and the reality is F major, not C Mixolydian.

Modes can be so cool that you don't need all this chords action, which I'm implying can get in the way of the feel of, really any of the modes.

[jancivil]

D Mixolydian solo

[nineofkings]

Jan's advice to be careful of how the chords and melody interact is pretty much the only thing to worry about. A corollary of that is to use modes that more or less agree with the tonality, so usually that means (other than ionian and aeolian obviously) mixolydian and/or lydian over a major key and dorian and/or phrygian over a minor key.

If you wanna be crazy you can even think of altering the modes over specific chords, known as chord-scale theory, but Jan gets annoyed when we talk about that.

[jancivil]

No, just call 'em scales and it's all good. The thing pisses me off is someone saying 'You need to do D Dorian mode over the ii chord and G Mixolydian over the V in C Major' which is not only wrong but a waste of mental energy. If it's C major you only need the one name.

And I've seen at least one brilliant guitarist say that kind of thing. And there is one really famous jazz theory book which fails to make a distinction. All will go nameless to save me handing out copies of the Butthurt Report to fill out.

Mixolydian, I and 'bVII' promote the feel.
Dorian, i and IV can.

[nineofkings]

No, just call 'em scales and it's all good. The thing pisses me off is someone saying 'You need to do D Dorian mode over the ii chord and G Mixolydian over the V in C Major' which is not only wrong but a waste of mental energy. If it's C major you only need the one name.

And I've seen at least one brilliant guitarist say that kind of thing. And there is one really famous jazz theory book which fails to make a distinction. All will go nameless to save me handing out copies of the Butthurt Report to fill out.

Mixolydian, do I and 'bVII'.
Dorian, do i and IV.

Gotcha. I will suggest though that it's not necessarily a waste of energy if you're continuously modulating. Suddenly you're playing a minor chord that's not in the key, what do you do? Well, if you're in between two keys at the moment, you can just default to knowing any of the notes of the Dorian mode of the root of the chord (for example) will sound consonant. This becomes more important with diminished chords and all the fun ways they're used

[jancivil]

Ok, but I still don't want to see the word mode there, if only because that word is too meaningful to me. I think you mean if you're on a minor chord none of the seven notes of dorian per that root are too dangerous in the moment.

Basic point: There is a ii, and a V, and you've stated "major key", therefore there is no need to call the major scale 3 (ultimately 7) things.

If the movement of V to i turns out to make i into ii for the purpose of more movement, there is more cause to avoid the word 'mode'. Simply because 'mode' means a certain 'tonic'. D Dorian Mode cannot be C major. If G7 moves to C minor which gets to be de facto ii of Bb, "C Dorian Mode" is not more true than D Dorian Mode was where there was merely C major; solid ground isn't the idea at all.

You need less extraneous terms on your mind the more movement you're dealing with, I would think.
"You can't think and play at the same time." - Sonny Rollins

[jancivil]

all that said, I find the "Lydian Chromatic Concept" no problem because Russell has not so much confounded modal thinking with tonality by it. Unlike some other book(s). He just stated something essential by it, that the scale with that #4 is a better basis (because harmonics, basically) than major.

[zethus909]

just play the solo centred around G instead of C

keep playing the notes of the C major scale (but starting on G)

start the bridge on G chord and sustain the G chord for an elongated number of bars. to cement that G tonal centre in the listeners ears .

start playing the solo on G and resolve it on G at each phrase end

until you want to end the bridge, then instead end it in C chord , use the G7 to C maneuver

because G 7 is the dominant of C

don't play the G 7 chord during the bridge , just at the end

during the bridge

just play a G chord triad , that will make it sound more "G-centric " since mixolydian starts on G

[nineofkings]

mixolydian starts on G

Mixolydian starts on G when playing the white notes on a piano. Mixolydian can start wherever you want if the intervals are correct from whatever root you choose. F Mixolydian with Bb and Eb, D mixolydian with F#, whatever.

[KyleJudkins]

If you're trying to play the diatonic mixolydian, I'd segue them to it by landing on a half cadence on one phrase, then the secondary dominant treated like a half cadence, and then take it to G for the solo...

If you're trying to super impose C mixolidian overy C Major, then your best bet is probably slipping into A Minor and making good use of the neopolitan to make the Bb make more sense to the listener.


If you're just trying to inject modes into something to sound more sophisticated, chances are you won't have the tools to pull it off... which I'm kind of weary after the referencing modes as a "scale"... while that's not indicative on its own, that usually doesn't bode well

[Googly Smythe]

My brain hurts! All I wanna do is play!

[KyleJudkins]

Well, maybe this is the wrong subforum to wander into

[Googly Smythe]

Well, maybe this is the wrong subforum to wander into

It's the masochist in me!

[Googly Smythe]

I did this awhile ago...

https://googlysmythe.bandcamp.com/track ... c-georgina

All the white notes, based on G.