Reason "VST" poll: For those who "left", how many of you will consider using Reason now?

[KarmaShaman]

See, I feel the exact polar opposite when it comes to workflow in Reason

Hmmm, what is your interpretation of the word 'exact' ?

Or the term 'polar opposite' ?

In the context of your entry above, there seems to be a lot of dubious sureties on your part.

[EnochLight]

So, out of almost 100 respondents, about 43% are going to buy/upgrade to 9.5 because of VST support, and an additional 17% will upgrade/buy if more features are added. 38% are out.

I realize that this poll is merely a microscopic portion of the user base out there, but even if it has an error rate of 20% (which is unnaturally high IMHO), let's assume 43% - %20 = 23% actually upgrade/purchase.

There's has to be at least 500,000 DAW users out there outside of Reason. I'm going to assume there's close to 750,000 in fact - probably higher (taking into consideration there's over 7.4 billion people on our planet, and a metric shit ton of "1st worlders" are bedroom musicians or pro)...

So if 23% of those users either add Reason on as a secondary DAW or purchase for the first time, that's 750,000 x 23% = 172,500 licenses. We'll assume that none of them are first time purchases (at $399 USD) and instead all "upgrades" (which is $129 USD).. so $129 USD x 172,500 = $22,252,500.

I feel this is a conservative estimate, but even if it's half that.. eh.. that's not too shabby of a profit for a small <30 person company. At any rate, that venture capital group will likely make back their investment come June 2017.

[KarmaShaman]

I can't begin to explain how pointless and flawed that number crunching exercise it. You have no idea, champ. You're using made up numbers to calculate against made up numbers. Stick to flipping burgers - you've no aptitude as a financial forecaster. In true fanboy style, you'll pose your own illusions of broad reaching success of Reason distribution because being part of a special club validates your measly existence.

[KarmaShaman]

Based on 337,000 KVR members with an average diet of two carrots per week, using 1.7 DAWs for 17.2 hours per calendar month and owning an average number of plugins where 'x' is assumed to be an integer of whole numbers greater than two digits, the poll results of 98 voters determines that approximately 87% of Reason users are wet, snotty handkerchiefs.

I do feel that this is a conservative estimate based entirely on numbers pulled from the sky. But I need you all the read my post here as factual, because I'm trying ever-so-hard to come across as a clever little lad.

[OreoSplitter]

I'll buy it if it's ever half off. Not paying $400 for another daw.

[xbitz]

the big question (at least for me), how they gonna solve the MIDI routing, AFAIK currently tracks, from MIDI routing point of view, are hard-coded/routed to the devices (and only the player devices have some access to the MIDIs between them), PolyCV (from Blamsoft) would be a solution, but it isn't integrated into the subsystems of Reason

For anyone who isn't aware of what exactly PolyCV adds:

The default Note + Gate CV connections in Reason allow an instrument to play a note at a specific velocity. Additional notes can be added after the first one is started. It may also be possible to have those additional notes be at a different velocity than the first, if the person coding the instrument pays special attention. But what can't happen is any note be stopped before another. Setting the gate to 0 stops all notes at the same time.

With PolyCV all of the above is possible, and each additional note can definitely be at a different velocity than the first. But there's the added feature that any note can be dropped from those being played at while still keeping the rest sounding.

PolyCV still uses only two cables. It doesn't even require special jacks on the receiving instrument, as specially encoded data is sent on occasion telling the instrument to expect PolyCV. The only thing that would have been nice, but would have complicated things more, is a way for the instrument to tell the sending device that it supports PolyCV. (Like a return CV cable, for a 2-way handshake.) As it is now, you have to manually tell the sending device to use PolyCV, and if the receiver doesn't support it, you'll get unpredictable results.

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7491107

[Studio Saturn]

Man I just tried the beta and the workflow for an hour or two. I gotta say when they add VST, they show their true picture how Reason workflow is stone age. I can't talk about it in detail since beta is for testing but it just gave me a headache. Be on the sequencer side and try to call your instrument and you will thank Bitwig and Studio one. Try to search a plugin to find and......... I just don't wanna talk about it in detail but I have two worlds. "Stone age"

Yes, very much agree. It's like working with boxing gloves on compared to the workflow of pretty much any other DAW.

I have used so many DAWs in my life and I have never said " Where am I?" while I'm working. And for the first time in my life in Reason I just said where the f**k I'm I? the more my track count goes bigger the more confusing it gets. It is not configurable. You can't put your plugin collection into favorite. Your plugin and your channel strip are not in sync. They are two separate things which they call it rack. The only benefit you get on version 9.5 if you manage to get away all the hard going that Reason has to offer is, the improvement of the sound quality with VST. That is it. I can't wait to see the finished product cause with my UAD collection the CPU has cried damnnnnn.

[EnochLight]

The only benefit you get on version 9.5 if you manage to get away all the hard going that Reason has to offer is, the improvement of the sound quality with VST. .

It's the same sound quality that's been present in Reason since RE's allowed devs to port their wares to Reason, thankfully (see: Softube, Rob Papen, etc). Being able to have access to all VST in an environment you prefer to work in is pretty bad ass, though. That said, I don't think your experience (difficulty in getting around, etc) will change though.

[ezelkow1]

the big question (at least for me), how they gonna solve the MIDI routing, AFAIK currently tracks, from MIDI routing point of view, are hard-coded/routed to the devices (and only the player devices have some access to the MIDIs between them), PolyCV (from Blamsoft) would be a solution, but it isn't integrated into the subsystems of Reason

What I hope they would do would be to add a generic midi player. So much like it looks like vst's get wrapped in their own little holding device they would make a similar one but in player form that would have a drop down to pick midi from any other device but also allow you to insert a vst

[keyman_sam]

Here's a thought - is it possible to now load VEP in Reason and have the audio I/O accessible in your DAW? This is so you could use Reason for outboard FX!

[EnochLight]

Here's a thought - is it possible to now load [VST] in Reason and have the audio I/O accessible in your DAW? This is so you could use Reason for outboard FX!

You could do this before (ever since Reason+Record became Reason 6.0)...

[Elektronisch]

as an ex Reason user (i started with this daw) i actually excited to try the trial version.

What really excites me that you can do all those parameter routings. Ofcourse you can do this in FL Studio already, but in reason it looks more intuitive and faster

[bmrzycki]

the big question (at least for me), how they gonna solve the MIDI routing, AFAIK currently tracks, from MIDI routing point of view, are hard-coded/routed to the devices (and only the player devices have some access to the MIDIs between them), PolyCV (from Blamsoft) would be a solution, but it isn't integrated into the subsystems of Reason.

At least for 9.5 it looks like there won't be any additional methods to handle MIDI data. VST instruments will accept note data the same way players and instruments do in Reason 9.2 today. The back panel of the VST wrapper device only has cv inputs for automation and audio outputs. No MIDI devices are planned and you can't stack VSTs and expect the MIDI to flow through them like in Reaper. Here's a screencap of the back of the device from the 9.5 video:

The back of the FX rack:


And the back of the Instrument rack:


The instrument CVs for note/gate don't say PolyCV so I'm fairly confident they are just like existing PHead instruments when connected via CV.

(For what it's worth, I'm not in the beta so this info is only from videos on YouTube and the public announcement.)

[EnochLight]

I see the term "VST wrapper" used often. To be clear - VST are not inside a wrapper at all in Reason (such as VST => AU). According to Propellerhead, this is a full implementation of the VST standard in Reason (well, aside from a few things).. The rack device is just how the particular VST/VSTi is interfaced inside Reason's rack paradigm.

[keyman_sam]

Here's a thought - is it possible to now load [VST] in Reason and have the audio I/O accessible in your DAW? This is so you could use Reason for outboard FX!

You could do this before (ever since Reason+Record became Reason 6.0)...

Err...not without using audio routing hacks like ReaRoute or some such.

I'm looking for a native solution without any hacks. Ideally ReWire would allow it but it doesn't, so here I am.