One Synth Challenge #98: Any One Synth (Photonic Wins!)

[EnGee]

I absolutely disagree!
I made a comment when I feel a need to. No one stopped you of making any comments! Actually you are being the hypocrite here! Who stopped you from making any comment? It was your choice to give points in two days without commenting on others work!

I don't mind to reveal all the voting, which the organisers still know every details about it of course. They know which one is hypocrite and which one is honest. You are being disrespectful about acusing the participants with such bs!

Is it your strategy now to undermine others works just to feel better with yourself? Or is it that you felt disappointed because other works are much better than yours?

I think that comments are very important -- especially for lower scores. If someone gives me a 2, and I know my song has a beginning and end, a decent melody, is harmonically interesting and is produced to what I consider a professional standard, I'm definitely interested in why it scored below the average, and comments will help with this. Most of the comments are positive, which could be people being "politically correct", or maybe just being nice as this is a friendly community.

Come on now! You are taking it upside down!
If people like your track, they comment on it. This is what is usual. I usually comment when I like somebody's work. It is a comment not analysis! And it's optional not a mandatory.

"You" are the one who can truely analyse your own work. No comments will make you better if you can't value your own! It's your job to find out why people didn't like (or liked) your track.

IMO of course

[Taron]

WAH, who ...yay... thank you for posting that wonderful song again! I loved it back then and still do!
When I read "popcorn" I thought for a moment this was about enjoying the Amphibian man inspired glory!

...sorry, I didn't mean to crash the party, but still: Thanks for posting it again! Still a masterpiece to me.

Funny, it felt like there was quite a peaceful atmosphere over here for some time now. ...let's get back to that again, why don't we!

As for leaving nice comments but low votes...well...it just goes to show that the desire to encourage is still going strong! I was always puzzled that people would write "I love it", but wouldn't "like" the track, hahaha.

[Frostline]

It's your job to find out why people didn't like (or liked) your track.

And the artist is supposed to figure this out how exactly without any indication as to why the track was disliked?
Just curious.
Just getting a number gives me no indication as to what I might do differently next time.
Psychic powers are sadly lacking in my personal abilities.
Does a 2 mean my mix was disliked or my melody or maybe my lack musical style?
You say it is my job to find out, ok so how do I find out when given nothing to go on?

[wagtunes]

Now, having said all that, I can tell you put a lot of work into it. Had it been just thrown together, I'd have given it a 1. The 2 was because of the work put in. But it was just too out there for my tastes.

I find this interesting.
So you vote weighing >60% of the potential score based on composition alone? Not passing judgement on that, it is just very different from how I usually judge.

The title of the competition lends me to weigh more heavily on the quality of the sounds that one can get from the synth and how well those sounds are mixed/mastered together.
While composition is important and can carry a weakly mixed track I try to prevent it from overwhelming an otherwise well produced track if I find the composition not to my usual taste. To say simply I have given tracks a 4 or even 5 that I did not enjoy listening to and would not listen to again for pleasure. The skill creating the sounds was impressive enough on their own to merit a high score to me.
On the other hand there are tracks I listen to just for appreciation of a great melody or interesting compositional idea but the final mixing might have only merited a 3 or 4.

Interestingly enough the track in question here was one of two 5's I gave that month (they placed 4th and 14th). So I can't say that I am completely in tune with the majority in my voting, but in full disclosure I shuffled down several other 5s in the hopes that in the future I could hear more tracks like the two I left at 5's. I still find them both amazing tracks.

What I find most perplexing in this conversation is that someone can admittedly put forth an indifferent effort and yet find any of the other entries or the competition itself disappointing.
Perhaps they all were indifferent in their submissions as well?
Or is it all other must try, but I free myself from that burden? Strange mindset either way.

The feedback issue (especially on low scores) has got me musing on a potential solution though I have no idea of the technical feasibility.
Would it be possible for an addition to the voting page where participants could opt-in to have a small text box appear if their track is placed below a user selected score that would allow the voter to privately provide a reason why they are scoring a track a certain way?

I say opt-in because some participants are not interested in the "why" but some are. I have found there are some people who do not want to hear any negative feedback or suggestions for improvement.

This way say I for instance could opt-in. Then when a voter (who has also opted-in) tries to slide my track into a 2 slot a little box would pop up and the voter could quickly type in "Bit boring melody, some sounds were harsh, mix is muddy-recommend adding some EQ on your reverb buss".
A nice quick and convenient thing where real feedback could be given yet without the potential of public embarrassment to either party.
And with it being opt-in those who want real feedback are also required to give it. That is when someone else opt-ins and I want to score their track a 2 I am required to provide some feedback as to why (because I was also opted-in).
Those who don't want to bother with either getting or giving feedback (positive or negative) would be free to carry on with how things currently are and only be required to award a number value of 1-5.
Having an opt-in system would make it easier to keep track of which participants actually want real constructive(even if negative) feedback (like I do) and which participants only want a number.

I like your opt in system.

To answer your question, sorry, but if a track bores me it bores me. First of all, how do I even know the person designed his own sounds? Maybe he just used the stock presets. I have no way of knowing. So really, the only two things I can judge on is the mix and the composition. Most of these tracks, if not all, I find mixed very well. I said that up top. These guys put me to shame as far as their mixing and production abilities. And to that, if everybody wants to give me 1s and 2s in spite of my composition, that's fine.

But, and here is where ultimately the 2s still become 2s, if the tracks that are also mixed very well interest me more musically, they're STILL going to get higher scores. Otherwise, what's the point of voting? I might as well just give everybody 4s and 5s because they're all great producers and be done with it. For me, the only thing that separates these guys IS the song. So the better songs get the higher scores.

To me, everything else is pretty much equal and that goes back to my not being a great producer myself. I probably can't really tell the difference between a great production and an average production.

Hope this makes my scoring more clear now.

[wagtunes]

WAH, who ...yay... thank you for posting that wonderful song again! I loved it back then and still do!
When I read "popcorn" I thought for a moment this was about enjoying the Amphibian man inspired glory!

...sorry, I didn't mean to crash the party, but still: Thanks for posting it again! Still a masterpiece to me.

Funny, it felt like there was quite a peaceful atmosphere over here for some time now. ...let's get back to that again, why don't we!

As for leaving nice comments but low votes...well...it just goes to show that the desire to encourage is still going strong! I was always puzzled that people would write "I love it", but wouldn't "like" the track, hahaha.

It was and then I showed up again. Don't worry. This is absolutely my last OSC.

[ontrackp]

Easy Wags -- it's good to have you back!

Re: scoring, I also weigh heavily towards composition -- this is after all a music competition not a sound design or mixing competition. Those are important elements, but even the greatest sound design, fake drums that sound real and slick production will not help a song that repeats the same 8 or 16 bars ad nauseum for 5 minutes without any melodic or harmonic interest. Anyone can make a loop. I want to hear a beginning, middle and end. I want to hear melodies or at least a collection of sounds that take me on an emotional journey, or engage me in some way. It's not about genre -- I don't care. If it's not engaging and interesting it will get a lower score from me. I agree with Wags, if I'm bored after a minute of listening, it's not a good song for me.

[wagtunes]

Easy Wags -- it's good to have you back!

Re: scoring, I also weigh heavily towards composition -- this is after all a music competition not a sound design or mixing competition. Those are important elements, but even the greatest sound design, fake drums that sound real and slick production will not help a song that repeats the same 8 or 16 bars ad nauseum for 5 minutes without any melodic or harmonic interest. Anyone can make a loop. I want to hear a beginning, middle and end. I want to hear melodies or at least a collection of sounds that take me on an emotional journey, or engage me in some way. It's not about genre -- I don't care. If it's not engaging and interesting it will get a lower score from me. I agree with Wags, if I'm bored after a minute of listening, it's not a good song for me.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taron]

Haha, wag, when I'm hoping for a peaceful atmosphere again, I don't mean you should run away. I mean for all of us, including you, to enjoy and nourish the great, useful and inspiring aspects of the OSC, rather than give too much weight to the less fortunate aspects. I understand, when a newbie is puzzled by some of the weirdness or doesn't quite know, yet, what our collective groove is. We "veterans", and by now I count myself to that gang, if you don't mind, can know better.
I wonder, if we should have a big FAQ or FIO (Frequently Imposed Opinions) ... for the OSC, you know!
That way, when ever such topics come up, we can point to certain entries there!

[ontrackp]

Haha, wag, when I'm hoping for a peaceful atmosphere again, I don't mean you should run away. I mean for all of us, including you, to enjoy and nourish the great, useful and inspiring aspects of the OSC, rather than give too much weight to the less fortunate aspects. I understand, when a newbie is puzzled by some of the weirdness or doesn't quite know, yet, what our collective groove is. We "veterans", and by now I count myself to that gang, if you don't mind, can know better.
I wonder, if we should have a big FAQ or FIO (Frequently Imposed Opinions) ... for the OSC, you know!
That way, when ever such topics come up, we can point to certain entries there!

+1

[wagtunes]

Haha, wag, when I'm hoping for a peaceful atmosphere again, I don't mean you should run away. I mean for all of us, including you, to enjoy and nourish the great, useful and inspiring aspects of the OSC, rather than give too much weight to the less fortunate aspects. I understand, when a newbie is puzzled by some of the weirdness or doesn't quite know, yet, what our collective groove is. We "veterans", and by now I count myself to that gang, if you don't mind, can know better.
I wonder, if we should have a big FAQ or FIO (Frequently Imposed Opinions) ... for the OSC, you know!
That way, when ever such topics come up, we can point to certain entries there!

Take my Soundcloud likeness and post it somewhere with a title that reads "OSC Opinionated King Do Not Do List" and make it a sticky on this forum. Make sure it includes every rant I've ever made and that way any newbie will be fully informed about what to expect and not expect when entering these train wrecks.

And for the record, all I said was I was disappointed by some of the entries this month to which a few people agreed with me.

But hey, when it's me it's me.

Oh, and for the record, couldn't quite give you a 5 this month. I felt it fell just a whisker short so a 4 from me. But I'm willing to bet you still end up in the top 5 because you are such a unique artist. Your stuff never bores me. Confuses me sometimes but never bores me.

[reusenoise]

Voted,good luck to all

[Frostline]

Re: scoring, I also weigh heavily towards composition -- this is after all a music competition not a sound design or mixing competition. Those are important elements, but even the greatest sound design, fake drums that sound real and slick production will not help a song that repeats the same 8 or 16 bars ad nauseum for 5 minutes without any melodic or harmonic interest. Anyone can make a loop. I want to hear a beginning, middle and end. I want to hear melodies or at least a collection of sounds that take me on an emotional journey, or engage me in some way. It's not about genre -- I don't care. If it's not engaging and interesting it will get a lower score from me. I agree with Wags, if I'm bored after a minute of listening, it's not a good song for me.

While I agree with much of what you say there is just some issue I have with it.
I think you could have the most hauntingly beautiful melody line but if it sounds like a kazoo inside a steel drum instead of a lush rich full sound it will probably not do well. Or if that melody is buried under such a muddy mix you can barely hear it or shrieking so loud it is all you can hear and your ears feel like they are going to bleed at any time I don't think it will do well either.
But some people really dig that kazoo sound and ringing ears, so who knows.

I guess I tend to judge more favorably skills that I feel I personally do not do well.
I am not creative with FX type sounds, so I judge good FX sounds higher because I can't personally do them. I can't think of them let alone create them so it impresses me when someone else does.
The same with mixing. All of what I create sounds like it needs more refinement(though I lack the skills to accomplish it). So mixes that sound well refined to me I judge highly.
If it sounds like it has sonic issues similar to what my mixes have then the track gets my sympathies but not a high score.
Composition, well I can make melodies that I enjoy very easily usually(that is not to claim anyone else enjoys them though).
And since I find it easy to please myself with melody or composition I don't find it all that impressive if someone else can do that too. I figure if I can do it, it does not surprise me if others can do it even better. And quite often people here prove they have the ability to make wonderful compositions even in genres I don't enjoy. And I appreciate getting exposed to new ideas that arise from listening to things outside my usual bailiwick.
I don't like some types of Jazz. Yet I can respect the artistry of it when done well musically even if the composition eludes my comprehension. So I wouldn't downvote a track just because it was a type of Jazz I don't like. I would downvote it if it was mixed poorly though.
But that is just how I look at it. Not claiming it is superior or inferior to any other method.

I always find these judging discussions interesting. I enjoy learning how others go about the process.

[Taron]

Thanks, wag! Of all months I had to flunk this one like that, it's crazy. You're totally right and don't have to worry whatsoever, I'm flattered even with a 4. I have no idea what happened...besides getting a mac and being overwhelmed in a few regards, I just couldn't get myself to make any music until the very last night of it...so insane. But I still truly enjoyed the crazy little melody tantrum it is, hehe...so...I dunno, it just did something to me. I should eventually give this song completeness, it really deserves it, I think.

Anyway, thanks, really, I appreciate it!

As for the judging discussion...my god, I don't have any steam for that topic anymore... While I so wish to participate in it...

OSC is the ONE SYNTH CHALLENGE!
Now, what all is covered by that idea. I believe, this is about our ability to pull off a song that could truly pass as a song in every respect: sound design, composition and mix as well as overall ingenuity.
This doesn't mean it HAS to be "this" or "that", but it means it should show a genuine aspiration to achieve a wholesome, musical (or audible) experience. And as much as encouragement is vital and beautiful, at the end the only hope for fair judgement comes from actually sincere judgement: Do I listen to it? Do I like the music? Do I appreciate the sound? Does it impress me in any way? And if all these fit the bill, maybe a little "is it original?" type question for the finer distinctions.
I'm sometimes really guilty of biased judgement, wanting to push people, who I believe need and deserve a push with a better rating. And sometimes even with the exact rating they should get, too, haha (as far as I'm concerned, of course).

Oh, hey, I wrote something after all...pfff...wottayaknow... (I'm still sure we all wrote something like that before, eh, several times.)

[] Peter:H []

Haha, wag, when I'm hoping for a peaceful atmosphere again, I don't mean you should run away. I mean for all of us, including you, to enjoy and nourish the great, useful and inspiring aspects of the OSC, rather than give too much weight to the less fortunate aspects. I understand, when a newbie is puzzled by some of the weirdness or doesn't quite know, yet, what our collective groove is. We "veterans", and by now I count myself to that gang, if you don't mind, can know better.
I wonder, if we should have a big FAQ or FIO (Frequently Imposed Opinions) ... for the OSC, you know!
That way, when ever such topics come up, we can point to certain entries there!

Take my Soundcloud likeness and post it somewhere with a title that reads "OSC Opinionated King Do Not Do List" and make it a sticky on this forum. Make sure it includes every rant I've ever made and that way any newbie will be fully informed about what to expect and not expect when entering these train wrecks.

And for the record, all I said was I was disappointed by some of the entries this month to which a few people agreed with me.

But hey, when it's me it's me.

Oh, and for the record, couldn't quite give you a 5 this month. I felt it fell just a whisker short so a 4 from me. But I'm willing to bet you still end up in the top 5 because you are such a unique artist. Your stuff never bores me. Confuses me sometimes but never bores me.

There you see how different perception and taste is...I would say that Tarons Track lacks room and depth this month...I myself don't care about melodies, I want to have a coherent mix with depth and room and some real sub bass...take the track "vice city" as comparision

[] Peter:H []

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