KVR Audio

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 3:13 am

Hello All,

noob here to recording analog synths without presets.

So I have some songs I wrote on guitar that I wish to translate to synthpop music. I have an interesting and unique sound that I was able to create on my ARP Odyssey that I am currently using in my verses.

I am no where near recording my choruses yet or my middle 8. I am not sure if I am going to want this sound to appear in the chorus or middle 8, I will have to see how the song develops. Problem is, I will never be able to make this EXACT sound ever again (yes I can take a picture of the synth and try to reproduce), but short of that, I will never have this sound ever again... so this led me to think.... how do electronic artists go about this?

Maybe the way I record is wrong? Is recording bits of the song at a time the wrong approach?

I would imagine this would go for any type of music too (even though guitars, bass, drums dont change as much), i would imagine if you record again at another point in time, the instrument might sound a little different (due to mic placement, tuning, etc...)

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You!

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Wed May 10, 2017 3:42 am

Yes, you have the basic idea. It will never sound exactly the same again. And you know what? That's okay!

Just record something with this sound and move on. Having different parts with slightly different sounds is a good thing. More variety is good.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 3:45 am

Agree with that usually.. but right now I am running into an issue where I want the SAME sound from my verse in my chorus, but the problem is, I recorded that sound 2 months ago and have used the synth so many times since then... no way I am getting this sound ever again....

so it makes me think my workflow is wrong.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Wed May 10, 2017 3:53 am

I don't that there's any secret weapon here, other than sampling, which, depending on the sound could be an option, especially for something that isn't velocity sensitive.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't get wrapped up in "perfect sounds" and I do almost completely electronic music most of the time. For every sound that's perfect when a track isn't finished, there's another sound that's just as perfect or even moreso when it is finished.

If I really wanted to get stuck on that particular sound then you've really got two options. Just leave the synth alone while you record other bits, or, record the bits that you might want it for. If they're not ready, then what would you expect the answer to be?

You could sample it, as I mentioned above and see if the sample of it does the sound justice.

I remember when I was learning to DJ and I didn't have many records. I asked my friend who was showing me things "what should I do if the tempos are too far apart", he said "get more records." I didn't think that it was a particularly useful answer at the time, but really, it was.

My answer to you, get more synths.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 3:55 am

I get what you are saying. Just wondering... how do you go about putting together your songs? you do the entire song at once or bits at a time (verse, bridge, chorus, etc..)

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:28 am

adamgrossmanLG wrote:I get what you are saying. Just wondering... how do you go about putting together your songs? you do the entire song at once or bits at a time (verse, bridge, chorus, etc..)

I don't write many "songs", but when I do, songwriting is a process distinct from song production. So, the "song" is finished before I do much with production. By that I mean that I can pick up an acoustic guitar or sit at the piano and play/sing the song through.

Given that, the question of production becomes rather moot. Because if I want to do it in pieces I can, the song is written. If a song isn't already "written" then it's hard for me to imagine how you think that you have the perfect sound?

For some music I separate writing, production, mixing, and mastering. I do them in separate, and sometimes multiple sessions per phase, but, I explicitly separate them and I don't really go back unless it's to fix some glaring problem. A lot of my music combines writing and production into one difficult to separate phase, but I'm not talking about songs. A big part of feeling like I'm not wasting my time is just making a decision and moving on. I think that you're dealing with some sense of FOMO. Just address it, record it, sample it, take a picture of it, or whatever, but have faith that you can create a good song in the end.

When I am combining production and writing into one step, as with almost all of my ambient stuff, then the sounds that I choose are a function of what else that I've chosen. In your spot, I'd just use the sound in some way and get on with it.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:30 am

oh my song is finished too before i even touch the synths.... i meant should I be recording the whole song at once... meaning if I use a drum machine, program it for the ENTIRE song and let it record or do parts at a time (like i do now).

sometimes i have trouble deciding right away how the total arrangement should go, so i do bits at a time, but then it leads to problems like i am facing now

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:52 am

You've made a good first step imho.

Actually defining exactly what it is that's bothering you and starting a thread is half the problem solved already.

Making some simple sampled Instruments as part of your normal workflow might work for you. You could do it with Kontakt or Maize sampler etc.

I was watching an old video of a electronic music guy a while back. He made a bass sound on his analog synth. He then sampled one note of it to use in his production. Later on he needed another note from the analog synth, so he sampled another before turning it off and used that in his arrangement.

How you want to work it is up to you. The example presented here is just one way of doing things.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:55 am

thanks for the suggestion... sampling is not an option for me (reason why is I need control over the filter cutoff live) also changing pitch on samples is not as good as actually changing the note of the oscillator from changing the note on the synth is just the better option sound-wise.

I wish I knew how they recorded in the 80s when all these synths were absent of presets.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:57 am

In the eighties, there was a real digital revolution. They had plenty of presets.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:02 am

Listen to Yazoo. No presets to be found on "Upstairs At Erics".

the main 3 synths that make up the album are:

Pro One
Arp2600
Juno 60

Thats it.

the patches stay consistent throughout, which makes me think Vince Clarke dialed up the sounds on the synths and recorded them for ALL parts of the song in one session (thus not having to go back and re-adjust all the parameters on the synths again for when it comes time for the chorus and he wants the same percussion sound again).

I feel like my issue is simply workflow. My head always thinks to just "record the verse" or "record the chorus" now.

I feel i am stuck in a bad mindset. (especially when working with analog synths with no presets lol)

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:08 am

I heard a Yazoo Multitrack once, he definitely 'orchestrated' everything before recording a single note. Everything was very precise.

* Can you save presets via MIDI?

* GForce make a ARP Odyssey VSTi.

Gotta split. God luck with it.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:27 am

Patch sheets are very useful. Record a part as a reference too, so you can get as close as possible.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:33 am

If the sound is essential for the song, then I would record all the parts before changing the sound drastically. Unless you can reproduce it later. I often sample the individual notes too, but its just not the same. When recording back in the 90s we didn't change the desk, effects or synth settings until the track was finished.

adamgrossmanLG · Post by **adamgrossmanLG** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:38 am

yep, so that means my work flow is wrong. I need to stop working the verse, then the chorus, etc...

I actually start with the chorus, then work backwards, but I don't even start the verse in the chorus is complete.

Perhaps I need a better workflow.

Question About Recording Analog Synths With No Presets