KVR Audio

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:28 am

Amberience wrote:
gnu23 wrote:Now I think the Beach Boys are a damned good band overall and Brian Wilson is a genius.

I'm not at that point yet I'm only 20!!

... wtf does grok mean??

I've been using the word for so long, I had forgot its origins. So...

from dictionary.com:

/grok/, /grohk/ (From the novel "Stranger in a Strange Land", by Robert A. Heinlein, where it is a Martian word meaning literally "to drink" and metaphorically "to be one with")

1. To understand, usually in a global sense. Connotes
intimate and exhaustive knowledge.

Contrast zen, which is similar supernal understanding
experienced as a single brief flash. See also glark.

2. Used of programs, may connote merely sufficient
understanding. "Almost all C compilers grok the "void" type these days."

Yeah, I'm a Heinlein fan from way back, but I haven't read "Stranger" in quite awhile - "grok" dropped itself right into my vocabulary like it was supposed to there by default, so I forgot where it came from.

Doug Nelson · Post by **Doug Nelson** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:30 am

I first started thinking about this a couple of months ago during one of the KvR Starsend chats. I'd been aware of dissonant electronic music since the 60s, but I'd always assumed appreciating it was more of an intellectual "hmmm...interesting (stroke beard)" thing. But then we're all listening to Ian Boddy, and I'm digging most of it, but then we get to this cacophony that seemed like it was dragging on forever. I'm thinking "silverware in a garbage disposal" but everyone else is going "this is so cool". And it occurs to me that either I'm way more evolved than the rest of them, or (more likely) I'm missing some important tools for appreciating this.

kaden · Post by **kaden** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:35 am

there's no mystery at all to me about composing it.

Dunno whether this matters to you or not, Doug, but a quote like that presents you as insultingly condescending.

If you're comfortable appearing in that light, more power to you, but don't expect to be afforded any respect from people like me who spend months growing and arranging our noise pieces.

If that's *not* how you want to appear, then at least now you're aware of the difference between how you appear and how you really are.

K

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:36 am

Amberience wrote:
... wtf does grok mean??

Grok was introduced by Robert Heinlen in Stranger in a Strange Land. It's a mental state equivelant to comprehension.

It also means f**k.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:37 am

"B.Oddy? Thats Bill Oddy!! Whats rude about body!?!"
"Hm... Tits??"

Doug have you ever heard Satie's Au Chocolat? Well... I suspect that people thought that song was dissonant when he first composed it. Dissonance is really just a way of exploring unchartered territory. Its a way that people group music that doesn't fit into the mainstream.

As for tools for appreciating it... I don't think it works like that. You either "get it" or you laugh and call it pretentious.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:39 am

kaden wrote:
there's no mystery at all to me about composing it.
Dunno whether this matters to you or not, Doug, but a quote like that presents you as insultingly condescending.

If you're comfortable appearing in that light, more power to you, but don't expect to be afforded any respect from people like me who spend months growing and arranging our noise pieces.

If that's *not* how you want to appear, then at least now you're aware of the difference between how you appear and how you really are.

K

I was actually more bothered by "[...]either I'm way more evolved than the rest of them" but I had planned on just keeping my mouth shut!

However... Doug... same reason as Kaden said.

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:46 am

Doug Nelson wrote:I first started thinking about this a couple of months ago during one of the KvR Starsend chats. I'd been aware of dissonant electronic music since the 60s, but I'd always assumed appreciating it was more of an intellectual "hmmm...interesting (stroke beard)" thing. But then we're all listening to Ian Boddy, and I'm digging most of it, but then we get to this cacophony that seemed like it was dragging on forever. I'm thinking "silverware in a garbage disposal" but everyone else is going "this is so cool". And it occurs to me that either I'm way more evolved than the rest of them, or (more likely) I'm missing some important tools for appreciating this.

Blue Cheer -> Black Sabbath (among others) -> Nirvana -> ?

David Bowie -> Alice Cooper -> Marilyn Manson -> ?

The Beatles (psychedelic phase) -> Pink Floyd -> Chemical Brothers and/or Radiohead -> ?

I'm sure there are other threads we can come up with, but it's late and I'm tired

If you want to really drag a line out, you can do this:

American Slave Music -> Gospel, Blues and early Jazz -> Rock n' Roll -> ?

That line of connections alone explodes into everything we hear in popular music today. And yeah, Classical falls in there too. For the line that has Floyd, we can branch off to Wendy Carlos and "Switched-On Bach", and that was a real eye-opener on the capabilities of synths.

"Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music", mentioned earlier in this thread, doesn't go back far enough.

Really, at the end of the day, I think it comes down to what you hear while growing up. It imprints and you go from there - wherever "there" is at the time.

Edits: Damned spelling errors 'cause I'm half-awake...

Doug Nelson · Post by **Doug Nelson** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:12 am

kaden wrote: Dunno whether this matters to you or not, Doug, but a quote like that presents you as insultingly condescending.

I've been accused of much worse, but what's so condescending about saying that I understand the joy of composition, no matter what your chosen style?

Do you not believe I am capable of feeling such joy?

Talk about condescending

Doug Nelson · Post by **Doug Nelson** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:13 am

Amberience wrote: I was actually more bothered by "[...]either I'm way more evolved than the rest of them" but I had planned on just keeping my mouth shut!

I guess I'm missing some humor context, as well

kaden · Post by **kaden** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:42 am

Artfully backpedalled, Doug. A successful career in politics obviously awaits, after you conquer avant-garde music. Given the rate that you can knock of your cat abuse pieces there's probably still time for you to make it onto the November ballots.

Politics gain is the music worlds loss...

I miss you already.

K

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:53 am

uh oh... now you've gone and forced him to get snarky (snooty?)

seriously kaden, you seem to have a decent command of the english language, but maybe some clarification on this quote would help?

kaden wrote: If that's *not* how you want to appear (TO ME), then at least now you're aware of the difference between how you appear (TO ME) and how you really are.

Please don't make assumptions about other peoples perceptions, as that is rather condescending.

btw, liked your craft, I imagine the executive gift marketing angle works well in Vancouver

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:53 am

oh yes and

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:30 am

tetraplan wrote: Eating candy all day is bad for your teeth.

no it isnt, its not cleaning them afterwards, eating candy all day is bad for ya heart

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:56 am

Kriminal wrote:
tetraplan wrote: Eating candy all day is bad for your teeth.
no it isnt, its not cleaning them afterwards, eating candy all day is bad for ya heart

no it's bad for uhm I'm no dr, the pancreas, which organ is effected my diabetes...oh well maybe it is the heart...

Buddah Buddy · Post by **Buddah Buddy** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:00 am

Kidneys/Liver...

Dissonance my assonance