I figured I would close out the headphone category (for myself) with the final type of headphones I have not fully asked about yet.
Many say that open backed headphones are the best for mixing and referencing, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend some pairs that have flat frequency response for these purposes, for under $200.
It appears that many have said that there is not much of a difference between semi-open back and open back, so I will take recommendations for either. I would have thought that semi-open back would put out a little less audio into the room, but apparently that isn't necessarily the case.
Here are a couple of models I have been considering, if people feel these are not flat please let me know....
(The four at the top of the list all have a similar design, some say are comfortable and some say they are not, I don't necessarily love the design because they look to be rather odd with the bars at the top, not a deal breaker though, but may be nicer to have something a little more compact)
Being able to fold up and also having removable cord would be two nice features to have.
AKG K702 (these many have mentioned are truly flat)
AKG K240
Audio Technica ATH-AD700X
Audio Technica ATH-AD900X
Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium 32 OHM (many have said not really flat)
I thought I would avoid open back, but after having the chance to try out some closed back models, I really don't think they are for me, the closed feel just did not feel right to me, which is unfortunate because they are suppose to be the way to go when used to record.
So I figured I would possibly give open back a try.
Anyways if anyone has any recommendations, please let me know.
Thank You
Open Back Headphones With Flat Frequency Response For Under $200
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- KVRAF
- 3817 posts since 8 Mar, 2006
It's not only about how flat the freq response is... also sound stage and stereo image and the quality/character of the sound... that results from the material and electronics the headphones are made from.
I have AKG K-612 pro ... they are very good if I can tell correctly ... they are even better with my carefully tweaked eq correction (there seems to be NO flat sounding pair on the market so far... an idea is to check out software like TB Morphit.
A friend has the K240 mkII ... they are very good as well, they seem flatter than mine but they have a bit more 'veiled' sound quality and the sound stage isn't that 'opened'
I can recommend both... unfortunately I didn't test the other models like the one you mentioned.. currious also!
I have AKG K-612 pro ... they are very good if I can tell correctly ... they are even better with my carefully tweaked eq correction (there seems to be NO flat sounding pair on the market so far... an idea is to check out software like TB Morphit.
A friend has the K240 mkII ... they are very good as well, they seem flatter than mine but they have a bit more 'veiled' sound quality and the sound stage isn't that 'opened'
I can recommend both... unfortunately I didn't test the other models like the one you mentioned.. currious also!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 155 posts since 22 Jun, 2015
@3ee
Thank You for the response, good point about also considering...
"sound stage and stereo image and the quality/character of the sound"
something I know but tend to be overlooking for some reason, I have become so focused on frequency response.
The things you mention are absolutely things I am interested in as well when choosing the correct pair of headphones.
Many seem to like the K240, probably a big reason for this is the price, so you mention the K240 may be a little flatter, but they may lack those other items you mention above.
I have never come across the AKG K612 model you mention, I will take a look.
Thank You again
If anyone else can speak on some of the models listed or have another pair to recommend please let me know.
Thank You for the response, good point about also considering...
"sound stage and stereo image and the quality/character of the sound"
something I know but tend to be overlooking for some reason, I have become so focused on frequency response.
The things you mention are absolutely things I am interested in as well when choosing the correct pair of headphones.
Many seem to like the K240, probably a big reason for this is the price, so you mention the K240 may be a little flatter, but they may lack those other items you mention above.
I have never come across the AKG K612 model you mention, I will take a look.
Thank You again
If anyone else can speak on some of the models listed or have another pair to recommend please let me know.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 155 posts since 22 Jun, 2015
@pule
I have not heard of these (NAD VISO HP50), I will look into them, quick search says they are about $230, would rather not have to go this high.
When you mention AKG are you referring to the 702 or the 240 or both? or the K612 mentioned by @3ee?
Surprising there have not been more responses on this topic, when I was asking about closed back headphones, many mentioned to get open back, now that I am asking about them not much activity going on.
Being that it is said that open backed headphones are the one to get for mixing and referencing your mixes, it is odd that there are not many "flat" pairs
If anyone has any more to recommend please let me know.
As @3ee mentioned, I am looking for flat pairs, but also sound stage, stereo image and quality/character of the sound are also important.
Thank You
I have not heard of these (NAD VISO HP50), I will look into them, quick search says they are about $230, would rather not have to go this high.
When you mention AKG are you referring to the 702 or the 240 or both? or the K612 mentioned by @3ee?
Surprising there have not been more responses on this topic, when I was asking about closed back headphones, many mentioned to get open back, now that I am asking about them not much activity going on.
Being that it is said that open backed headphones are the one to get for mixing and referencing your mixes, it is odd that there are not many "flat" pairs
If anyone has any more to recommend please let me know.
As @3ee mentioned, I am looking for flat pairs, but also sound stage, stereo image and quality/character of the sound are also important.
Thank You
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- KVRist
- 41 posts since 27 Jan, 2009
AKG signature is midrange emphasis. Nad Viso 50 is perceptual more linear than AKG 702 or 240 and translate much better. Viso sounds like loudspeaker in room and does not highlights fake details.
Last edited by Pule on Sun May 14, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2236 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
Erm,no i don't think it is true.AKG signature is midrange emphasis
Have a look at this German page.
https://www.kopfhoerer.de/test/akg-k612-pro/#
You can search for other headphones too to see the graphs.
The graphs are fairly accurate i think even if they are a bit smoothed (like almost any Headphone graph).
Already mentioned the K612 Pro in another OP thread .For me they are one of the best headphones available.I can listen with very low volume with them but not missing anything.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=481513
I did a little easy mod and like them a bit better this way.
Due to 120 Ohm they are a bit weak with bass if connected to a smartphone for example.So they need at least a interface.
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- KVRAF
- 3817 posts since 8 Mar, 2006
I also don't think AKG "sound" is more on the mid-range.... they usually have a bit more detail in the very highs thus making you say they are biased towards the highs a bit. (I'm not talking about the AKG "hi-fi" line of headphones, have no idea what they sound like)
^ I checked out the graph from the kopfhoerer.de website and it's way too smoothed out to give an idea.
Even though it's a bit too smoothed out also, I find the graph from goldenears more truthful..
http://en.goldenears.net/42471
The bass response of the K-612 seems very flat if you ask me... but as the graph shows, you do need to compensate with a gentle EQ curve to bring up the subs at round 30Hz by about 3-4 dB
Here's an EQ correction I did by ear on my pair using sine sweeps in both directions...
Took about a week to fine-tune but I think I got it around +\- 1 dB flat
https://app.box.com/s/vkuxa8iv29hgc152riu7m71wu6rvkz0r
^ I checked out the graph from the kopfhoerer.de website and it's way too smoothed out to give an idea.
Even though it's a bit too smoothed out also, I find the graph from goldenears more truthful..
http://en.goldenears.net/42471
The bass response of the K-612 seems very flat if you ask me... but as the graph shows, you do need to compensate with a gentle EQ curve to bring up the subs at round 30Hz by about 3-4 dB
Here's an EQ correction I did by ear on my pair using sine sweeps in both directions...
Took about a week to fine-tune but I think I got it around +\- 1 dB flat
https://app.box.com/s/vkuxa8iv29hgc152riu7m71wu6rvkz0r
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- KVRist
- 41 posts since 27 Jan, 2009
ok please look at the diagram and this wide bump in lowmid/mid range (100 - 1khz) and nasty peak in 2 khz. Bass and overall sound is better than average AKG signature for shure, but mid range is still pronounced.
http://en.goldenears.net/42471
http://en.goldenears.net/42471
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 155 posts since 22 Jun, 2015
Hey guys thank you for the responses.
I personally would rather not have to pay extra for headphone balancing software. With headphones in my price range being about $100-$200 plus $100-$150 software. I can understand why others may go this route, but for my purposes I cannot really validate these purchases at the moment.
(Again for my purposes)
It seems a little strange, in another post of mine where I was questioning if headphones would really be worth purchasing for my needs, I was leaning more towards closed back headphones or maybe even no purchase at all. Many said they are needed which I for the most part do understand, but many mentioned that as far as mixing and referencing mixes that open backs were the way to go, now that I have been leaning towards open backs it appears that they might not be for me either.
Hard to say, I just wonder if I am going to be able to not only "learn" a pair of headphones, but then also be able to compensate for their faults. Especially because you pretty much have to do the same when using studio monitors. I get that the goal is to be able for your mix to sound good on everything, so the more stuff you reference on the better, but it just seems odd to have to be compensating on every single piece of gear you use. Like I understand for having to do this for labtop speakers, cheap headphones, etc. but when you have to also do this on "studio" gear, the stuff designed for this field, it just seems a little odd.
I was thinking that open back headphones would have had flatter frequency responses which was one of the main reasons for people recommending them to mix on, but it seems they may suffer from the same non flat responses that closed back ones do. I guess the main reasons open backs are recommended are things that others have mentioned such as no frequency build up like on closed back, more natural sound, etc.
Anyways, I am still open for other models and or suggestion, because I do understand that they do have value, just had higher hopes for my purchases.
Thanks Again for all the responses.
I personally would rather not have to pay extra for headphone balancing software. With headphones in my price range being about $100-$200 plus $100-$150 software. I can understand why others may go this route, but for my purposes I cannot really validate these purchases at the moment.
(Again for my purposes)
It seems a little strange, in another post of mine where I was questioning if headphones would really be worth purchasing for my needs, I was leaning more towards closed back headphones or maybe even no purchase at all. Many said they are needed which I for the most part do understand, but many mentioned that as far as mixing and referencing mixes that open backs were the way to go, now that I have been leaning towards open backs it appears that they might not be for me either.
Hard to say, I just wonder if I am going to be able to not only "learn" a pair of headphones, but then also be able to compensate for their faults. Especially because you pretty much have to do the same when using studio monitors. I get that the goal is to be able for your mix to sound good on everything, so the more stuff you reference on the better, but it just seems odd to have to be compensating on every single piece of gear you use. Like I understand for having to do this for labtop speakers, cheap headphones, etc. but when you have to also do this on "studio" gear, the stuff designed for this field, it just seems a little odd.
I was thinking that open back headphones would have had flatter frequency responses which was one of the main reasons for people recommending them to mix on, but it seems they may suffer from the same non flat responses that closed back ones do. I guess the main reasons open backs are recommended are things that others have mentioned such as no frequency build up like on closed back, more natural sound, etc.
Anyways, I am still open for other models and or suggestion, because I do understand that they do have value, just had higher hopes for my purchases.
Thanks Again for all the responses.
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- KVRAF
- 2236 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
Nasty Peak? You realize that we are talking about +3dB? I'm talking about perception! There isn't a huge peak in 2 Khz,otherwise i would notice.Why should i buy this kind of headphone.Pule wrote:ok please look at the diagram and this wide bump in lowmid/mid range (100 - 1khz) and nasty peak in 2 khz. Bass and overall sound is better than average AKG signature for shure, but mid range is still pronounced.
http://en.goldenears.net/42471
Now compare +3dB to other headphones.
Although can view those peaks from another perspective.
At around 4Khz any human ear is extremely sensitive,the same at 1Khz too but not so drastic,this has also something to do with the movement of air (compared to monitors that's again another story) and the construction of the human ear canal. So talking about the K612 there are dips around 4 and 1 Khz which is very appreciated. Otherwise i doubt anyone would listen to headphones because it would sound outright harsh and ugly.
With In ears it is even more distinctive and there are greater dips compared to normal headphones.My guess this has to do with the movement of air too,there isn't a lot since the plugs sitting inside the ear canal.
There can't be a linear headphone just because it would sound outright horrible wrong.
With this in mind it is understandable that manufacturers are knowing what they are doing.
Now,a balanced headphone should consider the physical construction of a ear to actual sound linear but there is always a bit difference of the actual ear canal construction.
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- KVRAF
- 2236 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
I don't like how many reviewers are selling headphones,at the end they are talking about how they sense the actual product but they never mention the ear canal construction and what the dips are there for (beware of the peaks )
kopfhoerer.de is quite usable imo.Earlier this year i tested somef headphones in shops and after analyzing their graphs i began slowly to understand what kind of headphone i like any why i like them and why not.
)kopfhoerer.de is quite usable imo.Earlier this year i tested somef headphones in shops and after analyzing their graphs i began slowly to understand what kind of headphone i like any why i like them and why not.
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