Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[fmr]

When is the pre-order period end? I suppose the special crossgrade price will last only during pre-order, right?

[SJ_Digriz]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

People will debate this forever, but, the point remains that some people view sample based synthesis as somewhat distinct from non-sample based synthesis owing to both the limitations and advantages of the former. Wiki definitions will not change that.

I like certain sample based instruments quite a bit, but generally not sample based variants of classic analog synths. For me, there's just not much point to them. Other people may disagree with that, and that's fine.

I think his point is that liking or disliking a variant of synthesis does not make it NOT synthesizing. Also, there are a lot of hybrid "synthesizers" on the market. The new Novation Peak has digital oscillators. Does that make it NOT a synthesizer? Many hardware synths have DCO's and digital filters. For example DSI just added a digital HPF to one of their synths? Does that make it not a synthesizer?

Anyhow, I agree that sampled oscillators have some built in limitations. And I've not been a fan of sample based synth recreations. However, there are some advantages that come with it as well. It doesn't seem like this is just a "sampled preset" library, although it does have some of those. It remains to be seen how good the filter and VCA modeling is. In conjunction with functional modulation back to the oscillators, these will be the things that make/break the kit for me. I am also a bit put off by the lack of the 3rd OSC on some of the synths. It's an important part of many patch configurations. So, we'll see.

[Elektronisch]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer

In the case of Syntronik the secret will be in the layers. Taking different sounds from different instruments, layering them together and applying effects, employing the Arpeggiators, sweeping filters etc. I imagine some quite complex and evolving sounds will be possible with a little imagination.

Anyway I'll almost certainly buy Syntronik despite the annoying month long pre-hype. Just wake me up a few days before it's actually released.

Well in that case Kontakt 5 is a sample based synthesizer and by loading a kick sample when im making a track im actually synthesizing a sound of a drum.

Anyway in new IK product case what i see this is like Miroslav Philharmonik 2 or any other high end orchestra library just with analog modeled filters and effects. And by hybrid oscillators i expect to be able to stretch, pitch choose phase, change the waveform of the oscillator the least. And that part is missing so you can call it whatever but by loading few different takes in Kontakt will give you 10 times more flexability and its called a sample player

[aMUSEd]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

People will debate this forever, but, the point remains that some people view sample based synthesis as somewhat distinct from non-sample based synthesis owing to both the limitations and advantages of the former. Wiki definitions will not change that.

I like certain sample based instruments quite a bit, but generally not sample based variants of classic analog synths. For me, there's just not much point to them. Other people may disagree with that, and that's fine.

I think his point is that liking or disliking a variant of synthesis does not make it NOT synthesizing. Also, there are a lot of hybrid "synthesizers" on the market. The new Novation Peak has digital oscillators. Does that make it NOT a synthesizer? Many hardware synths have DCO's and digital filters. For example DSI just added a digital HPF to one of their synths? Does that make it not a synthesizer?

Anyhow, I agree that sampled oscillators have some built in limitations. And I've not been a fan of sample based synth recreations. However, there are some advantages that come with it as well. It doesn't seem like this is just a "sampled preset" library, although it does have some of those. It remains to be seen how good the filter and VCA modeling is. In conjunction with functional modulation back to the oscillators, these will be the things that make/break the kit for me. I am also a bit put off by the lack of the 3rd OSC on some of the synths. It's an important part of many patch configurations. So, we'll see.

For me the issue is just that it reduces flexibility. If I have say a certain Moog sound that sound is not synthesized but played from recordings of a Moog - therefore I can't change that particular sound into another sound, I would have to load another sample to do that. I remember when some novice SD made a bank for Diversion and decided to save CPU by converting all the CPU intensive patches to samples. He thought that was a good idea, and in terms of saving CPU I suppose it was, but what it meant in practice was that you were stuck with that patch being based on a sample and not realtime synthesis so couldn't do anything with it apart from play it, replace the sample or process it differently. To me that's a rather dead end approach.

btw I'm perfectly happy to have samples of analog synths as mangling fodder, just not for emulations, I think these days we are at a point where we can model synths effectively enough not to need samples to take shortcuts anymore (and getting closer to the point where we can do that with some acoustic instuments too).

[SJ_Digriz]

Well in that case Kontakt 5 is a sample based synthesizer and by loading a kick sample when im making a track im actuallt synthesizing a sound of a drum.

It's sample playback up to the point you start filtering, modulating, effecting the playback. From that point Kontakt and indeed sample source as oscillator is synthesis.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

When is the pre-order period end? I suppose the special crossgrade price will last only during pre-order, right?

Pre-order pricing will be effective until the release of Syntronik in July, 2017. That price for crossgrade will also only be effective until release, yes.

[Elektronisch]

Well in that case Kontakt 5 is a sample based synthesizer and by loading a kick sample when im making a track im actuallt synthesizing a sound of a drum.

It's sample playback up to the point you start filtering, modulating, effecting the playback. From that point Kontakt and indeed sample source as oscillator is synthesis.

And Syntronik is different? It plays sample set and applies to it filter with adsr. You can also have some minimal modulation.

[SJ_Digriz]

For me the issue is just that it reduces flexibility. If I have say a certain Moog sound that sound is not synthesized but played from recordings of a Moog - therefore I can't change that particular sound into another sound, I would have to load another sample to do that. I remember when some novice SD made a bank for Diversion and decided to save CPU by converting all the CPU intensive patches to samples. He thought that was a good idea, and in terms of saving CPU I suppose it was, but what it meant in practice was that you were stuck with that patch being based on a sample and not realtime synthesis so couldn't do anything with it apart from play it, replace the sample or process it differently.

btw I'm perfectly happy to have samples of analog synths as mangling fodder, just not for emulations, I think these days we are at a point where we can model synths effectively enough not to need samples to take shortcuts anymore (and getting closer to the point where we can do that with some acoustic instuments too).

Again, I don't disagree with the dislike of the limitations. However, my understanding is that this isn't a preset library of famous patches, although there are some of those. By having modeled filters and sampled oscillators, this is more flexible than the standard approach. I have the same type of reservations, I just think this is a little "more" than a set of preset samples for mangling. I don't know if that is true yet or not ... IK Marketing can be a hair overzealous with claims of functionality... but the basis is there for some interesting flexibility that is more than just mangling a preset.

[SJ_Digriz]

Well in that case Kontakt 5 is a sample based synthesizer and by loading a kick sample when im making a track im actuallt synthesizing a sound of a drum.

It's sample playback up to the point you start filtering, modulating, effecting the playback. From that point Kontakt and indeed sample source as oscillator is synthesis.

And Syntronik is different? It plays sample set and applies to it filter with adsr. You can also have some minimal modulation.

It isn't different, that's the point ... but it is synthesis as soon as you do anything to "treat/manipulate" the sound source.

Also, most of the early sample based clones had crap built in filters, poor raw oscillator choice, limited scaling of the oscillators. Basically they are just patch engines that usually sound like shit when you do any manipulation beyond the patch. And, you can't treat them as a subtractive synthesizer as you would the modeled synth. In the case of Syntronik and some of the UVI and Kontakt libraries, you have so many samples of raw oscillators that you can approach the clone as a synth. There are still a lot of limitations around FM, PWM etc... But, it has a chance to better than the stand alone sampled synthesizers we've had to date.

[murnau]

$69.99 after the crossgrade + jam points. No brainier for me

Lucky you! Here is the damn VAT that eats all my jam points.

[wagtunes]

I look at the whole "is a synth, isn't a synth" debate like this.

Take the Minimoog. I think we all agree that it's a synth. There are no samples. However, when you break it down into its components, there isn't much to a Minimoog. In fact, this is right off their sales page.

• 3 vintage Moog oscillators
• Classic Moog low pass ladder filter with resonance
• Analog circuit boards recreated using original designs and component placement
• Custom reissued transistors critical to sound quality and character
• Military spec precision resistors
• Precision Linear System matched JFETs in oscillators
• Classic thermoset, knurled pitch and mod wheels
• CV Modifications: outputs added for Pitch, Aftertouch, Velocity and Gate (Aftertouch and Velocity have dedicated output level attenuators)
• Modulation Modifications: analog Triangle/Square wave LFO and Filter Envelope added as modulation sources, as well as an External Modulation CV input
• Overload Modification: the output of the Minimoog Model D is automatically scaled and fed back to the External Audio Input for instantly available overdrive
• Improved circuit board connectors for touring reliability
• Fatar TP-9 keybed with velocity and aftertouch
• MIDI in, out and thru

By today's standards, as far as what we can do with a synth, this is nothing special. And each oscillator is what? Sawtooth, Square, Pulse, Triangle and Sine?

How many truly unique sounds are you getting out of that? Trust me, not many relative to something like Serum which is virtually unlimited.

Now take this synth from 1K. How many sounds do you think you're getting out of IT?

Each individual synth not enough? What happens when you start stacking combinations up to 4 layers? And you still can modify the sound somewhat with filters and LFOs.

With the crossgrade, this synth will cost you less than The Legend by a ton and give you tons more sounds.

In the bang for the buck category if all you're ultimately interested in is making music and having a wide sound palette with which to do that, you can't even begin to compare The Legend, a REAL synth, to this.

However, if you want to tweak knobs and be a synthesist, yeah, this product probably isn't going to do it for you.

If I didn't already own over 100 synths, I'd probably be getting this. But I have everything covered and I don't see this as something you'd design a sound library for because of what it is. I think its simplicity in getting the sounds you want is going to get a lot of folks who don't want complicated synths that they have no desire to learn how to program to buy this.

Bottom Line: I liked what I heard. Sounds just as good, if not better, than a lot of REAL synths.

Whatever "real synths" means.

[recursive one]

Actually the concept of this synth (let's assume this is a synth) very much reminds me about Synthmaster One, where we also have sampled waveforms from analogue synths running through a circuit-modelled filter and a set of effects. Though I think S One has much more modulation options and much more tweakability on the oscillator level.

[SODDI]

Well in that case Kontakt 5 is a sample based synthesizer and by loading a kick sample when im making a track im actuallt synthesizing a sound of a drum.

It's sample playback up to the point you start filtering, modulating, effecting the playback. From that point Kontakt and indeed sample source as oscillator is synthesis.

Or that someone else has already done the heavy lifting on the sample/synthesis for you. i.e., Joe Developer has already manipulated the source sample - cut it, trimmed it, looped it - so it is immediately playable.

Not too unlike buying 3rd party presets.

[Gamma-UT]

Something like Synthmaster certainly does have all that. What you get (or seem to get) here is convenience. To emulate a Polymoog Vox Humana on S1 you need to know what goes into the sound (and IIRC have three LFOs to allocate to pitch modulation). I would expect or hope with Syntronik, you don't have to think much about doing that. You just dial it up and tweak it a bit.

For some people that's going to work well. For others, not so much. Personally, I'm happy for the convenience and dedicate the 'real' synths to not trying to emulate old stuff.

[jbraner]

I have T Racks 3 Deluxe, which upgraded to T Racks Custom Shop - so I guess this would count for the cross grade?