Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[Weasel-Boy]

I've been reading this thread and looking at IKs Syntronik product pages...and apologize ahead of time for this bit of ranting.

I'm a long time Sample Tank owner and I really like the product. When IK put this out, they were pretty unpretentious with their marketing as to what the product was and what it did. By the time they got around to marketing Sample Tank 3, you'd have to be blind to not see the marketing bullshit behind the rollout. Basically, IK latched onto what Arturia figured out years ago: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

In Arturia's case it was using the same lame synth engine over and over wrapped in photorealistic GUIs of the synths they were supposed to emulate. Anyone who thinks Arturia got it right (or even close) should have their hearing checked.

In ST3's case, it was a 64 bit reworking of ST2 using flashier graphics in a revised GUI. It is essentially and functionally the exact same product as ST2. To be fair, the competition is a lot stiffer than when ST2 was originally released and so something had to be done to make the product appear to be a more substantial offering. But the marketing handwriting was on the wall. Particularly how it showed up here, in KVR.

I think this strategy is again evidenced with the Syntronik release.

I find the IK promos using that stack wonderful vintage hardware every bit offensive as Arturia's line of fake synths.

This product uses the same rompler engine over and over for all the renditions pictured in the big glamorous promo pic.

Consider that this product provides no way to control PWM. There is no oscillator sync. There are no pitch envelopes. There is no cross modulation. And importantly: if you start with a sampled waveform, you have already tainted it somewhat by recording it through the original synth's filters and output circuitry. Adding an emulation of a filter to further color the sound of the sampled oscillators will never give you a true rendition of the original. Providing a ton of presets all depending on FX that were never available in the original units doesn't help matters either.

These are all key missing or unoriginal elements that make this product nothing more than a simple rompler broken out into different GUIs. It just looks to me like an attempt to make you think you're getting a whole bunch of vintage synths for your money. You're not.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that will be attracted to this product on the weight of the marketing and not the merits of the synths they are supposed to be emulating. Again, it's just a rompler saddled to cute GUIs with a fair amount of presets. So let's not kid ourselves here.

And one other thing about IK's marketing strategy. The cheap "you take your chances" pre-order pricing with no demo to base a purchase on sales pitch. I actually find this practice to be quite dishonest in its nature and no amount of spin is going to change that.

That's my opinion. Have at it.

[Elektronisch]

I've been reading this thread and looking at IKs Syntronik product pages...and apologize ahead of time for this bit of ranting.

I'm a long time Sample Tank owner and I really like the product. When IK put this out, they were pretty unpretentious with their marketing as to what the product was and what it did. By the time they got around to marketing Sample Tank 3, you'd have to be blind to not see the marketing bullshit behind the rollout. Basically, IK latched onto what Arturia figured out years ago: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

In Arturia's case it was using the same lame synth engine over and over wrapped in photorealistic GUIs of the synths they were supposed to emulate. Anyone who thinks Arturia got it right (or even close) should have their hearing checked.

In ST3's case, it was a 64 bit reworking of ST2 using flashier graphics in a revised GUI. It is essentially and functionally the exact same product as ST2. To be fair, the competition is a lot stiffer than when ST2 was originally released and so something had to be done to make the product appear to be a more substantial offering. But the marketing handwriting was on the wall. Particularly how it showed up here, in KVR.

I think this strategy is again evidenced with the Syntronik release.

I find the IK promos using that stack wonderful vintage hardware every bit offensive as Arturia's line of fake synths.

This product uses the same rompler engine over and over for all the renditions pictured in the big glamorous promo pic.

Consider that this product provides no way to control PWM. There is no oscillator sync. There are no pitch envelopes. There is no cross modulation. And importantly: if you start with a sampled waveform, you have already tainted it somewhat by recording it through the original synth's filters and output circuitry. Adding an emulation of a filter to further color the sound of the sampled oscillators will never give you a true rendition of the original. Providing a ton of presets all depending on FX that were never available in the original units doesn't help matters either.

These are all key missing or unoriginal elements that make this product nothing more than a simple rompler broken out into different GUIs. It just looks to me like an attempt to make you think you're getting a whole bunch of vintage synths for your money. You're not.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that will be attracted to this product on the weight of the marketing and not the merits of the synths they are supposed to be emulating. Again, it's just a rompler saddled to cute GUIs with a fair amount of presets. So let's not kid ourselves here.

And one other thing about IK's marketing strategy. The cheap "you take your chances" pre-order pricing with no demo to base a purchase on sales pitch. I actually find this practice to be quite dishonest in its nature and no amount of spin is going to change that.

That's my opinion. Have at it.

Spot on. No denial in that. I was about to write about that marketing bullshit but you already did it.

The fact that you can play the synthronik sounds in ST3 (maybe minus external FX wich i highly doubt because ST3 includes all of them already) makes it clear what kind of product this is

[Triplefox]

I'm actually intrigued by this one. I'm not as adamant about programming as I used to be(I've developed soundfont and VA code by now so I know a few things about programmability), and the premise of this instrument - and I take the whole collection as a singular "instrument" - is to survey classic sounds in an accessible UI and allow for some mix-and-match in the editing, not to expose the full depth of any of them, because - well - there are nearly 40 of them represented, more synths than most people have ever touched by a large multiple. That is a good proposition for me, as there are plenty of synths that have "that one sound" but actually aren't that distinguishable otherwise: so why would I learn to program a new one if my existing stuff can pull off the same effect? And there's 50GB of raw sample material, which is a pretty strong basis for capturing the essence of each one.

Given the limitations to the approach, the sound quality is sure to have inaccuracies, but that doesn't faze me. Every new generation of synths feels some obligation to emulate the previous - FM emulating analog, romplers emulating FM, and so on. I think old are interesting now because of the resulting differences.

[Burillo]

lolwut? that's like saying Kontakt libraries are crap because they "use the same rompler engine over and over"...

[Elektronisch]

lolwut? that's like saying Kontakt libraries are crap because they "use the same rompler engine over and over"...

Lolwhut? No one is saying Syntronik is crap. It might be the opposite.

its not the problem that its the rompler. The problem is ridiculous IK's marketing and defense of a product by trying to make it something that its not.

[Burillo]

where does IK pretend that Syntronik is something that it's not? they clearly state that it's sample-based, and clearly state that it employs additional techniques to make it less "samply". so what that they reuse rompler engine of SampleTank? they have a rompler engine, they are essentially doing a synth sample library - what is it that you propose they use instead, and how do you propose they market it?

[Elektronisch]

where does IK pretend that Syntronik is something that it's not? they clearly state that it's sample-based, and clearly state that it employs additional techniques to make it less "samply". so what that they reuse rompler engine of SampleTank? they have a rompler engine, they are essentially doing a synth sample library - what is it that you propose they use instead, and how do you propose they market it?

here, directly from product page http://www.ikmultimedia.com/news/?item_id=10700

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date. And you can pre-order it now and save big, for as low as $/€99.99!

Syntronik includes 17 amazing instruments with over 2,000 preset sounds covering a wide selection of 38 amazing synths and string machines from the iconic to the ultra-rare. Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths. All of this combined with 38 analog-modeled and digital effects along with advanced features like 4-part layers, splits and arpeggiators make Syntronik the ultimate source of inspiration with the widest palette of synthesizer sounds ranging from exact reproductions of the originals to sounds never heard before that will stand out from the crowd in productions covering any genre and style.

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results. IK has sourced only the best instruments from private collections and sampled them over the course of several years with the goal of offering a highly editable instrument that would maintain the exact sonic character of the originals.

Syntronik synths include:
Modular Moog, Minimoog Model D, Moog Voyager, Moog Taurus I, Moog Taurus II, Moog Taurus 3, Polymoog, Moog Opus 3, Moog Rogue, Realistic Concertmate MG-1, Multimoog, Micromoog, Moog Prodigy, Sequential Circuits Prophet-5, Sequential Circuits Prophet-10, ARP 2600, Oberheim SEM, Oberheim OB-X, Oberheim OB-Xa, Yamaha CS-80, Yamaha GX-1, Yamaha CS-01II, Yamaha SY99, Roland Juno-60, Roland Jupiter-8, Roland Jupiter-6, Roland Jupiter-4, Roland JX-10, Roland JX-8P, Roland JX-3P, Roland TB-303 Bassline, Alesis Andromeda, PPG Wave 2.3, ARP String Ensemble, Elka Rhapsody 490, Hohner String Performer, Roland RS-505 Paraphonic & Roland RS-09 Organ/Strings.

Syntronik works as a stand-alone instrument for Mac/PC as well as a plug-in for most popular DAW's. Syntronik sounds can also be seamlessly read by SampleTank 3, in the industry-standard sound and groove workstation, to build complete soundtracks for any style of music.

[Burillo]

which particular part of that huge quote offends your sensibilities? to me, they clearly delineate what Syntronik is, right from the start:

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date.

<...>

Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths.

<...>

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results.

Unless, of course, what you're complaining about is their assertion that it's "ultimate", "best-sounding" and "truly authentic", which is ridiculous - this is a marketing piece, of course they're going to claim it's the best.

[Elektronisch]

which particular part of that huge quote offends your sensibilities? to me, they clearly delineate what Syntronik is, right from the start:

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date.

<...>

Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths.

<...>

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results.

Unless, of course, what you're complaining about is their assertion that it's "ultimate", "best-sounding" and "truly authentic", which is ridiculous - this is a marketing piece, of course they're going to claim it's the best.

Look, ill try to pinpoint you whats advertised:

new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine
new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators
brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section

You can run this via Sampletank 3 wich is not new at all. And check Sampletank filters, they seem to be the same, all the effects are the same just with different skins.
You can say its new, but i dont buy this. Its just a repackaging.

You can argue you want, but you dont really have any argument here to disprove this without IK showing some insight.

[JJ_Jettflow]

You can run this via Sampletank 3 wich is not new at all. And check Sampletank filters, they are the same, all the effects are the same just with different skins.
You can say its new, but i dont buy this. Its just a repackaging.

You can argue you want, but you dont really have any argument here to disprove this without IK showing some insight.

How can you compare filters between Syntronik and ST3 seeing Syntronik is not even out yet? Did you read this somewhere? Did Peter mention this?

[Elektronisch]

which particular part of that huge quote offends your sensibilities? to me, they clearly delineate what Syntronik is, right from the start:

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date.

<...>

Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths.

<...>

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results.

Unless, of course, what you're complaining about is their assertion that it's "ultimate", "best-sounding" and "truly authentic", which is ridiculous - this is a marketing piece, of course they're going to claim it's the best.

Look, ill try to pinpoint you whats advertised:

new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine
new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators
brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section

You can run this via Sampletank 3 wich is not new at all. And check Sampletank filters, they are the same, all the effects are the same just with different skins.
You can say its new, but i dont buy this. Its just a repackaging.

You can argue you want, but you dont really have any argument here to disprove this without IK showing some insight.

How can you compare filters between Syntronik and ST3 seeing Syntronik is not even out yet? Did you read this somewhere? Did Peter mention this?

Look at the provided palette of filter options. Plus again YOU CAN LOAD THIS THING IN TO ST3?

how can you not understand this?

[JJ_Jettflow]

which particular part of that huge quote offends your sensibilities? to me, they clearly delineate what Syntronik is, right from the start:

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date.

<...>

Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths.

<...>

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results.

Unless, of course, what you're complaining about is their assertion that it's "ultimate", "best-sounding" and "truly authentic", which is ridiculous - this is a marketing piece, of course they're going to claim it's the best.

Look, ill try to pinpoint you whats advertised:

new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine
new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators
brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section

You can run this via Sampletank 3 wich is not new at all. And check Sampletank filters, they are the same, all the effects are the same just with different skins.
You can say its new, but i dont buy this. Its just a repackaging.

You can argue you want, but you dont really have any argument here to disprove this without IK showing some insight.

How can you compare filters between Syntronik and ST3 seeing Syntronik is not even out yet? Did you read this somewhere? Did Peter mention this?

Look at the provided palette of filter options. Plus again YOU CAN LOAD THIS THING IN TO ST3?

Oh yes, by "looking" I can see that.

Better yet, why not ask Peter?

[JJ_Jettflow]

Hey Peter:

Quick question. The info on Syntronik states they are brand new filters but there is talk these same filters exist in ST3 so there seems to be a bit of confusion about this. Could you please clear this up?

[Burillo]

which particular part of that huge quote offends your sensibilities? to me, they clearly delineate what Syntronik is, right from the start:

We are pleased to announce Syntronik, a new cutting-edge virtual synthesizer with a combination of the most advanced sampling techniques and a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine to provide players and producers with the ultimate and best-sounding collection of vintage synthesizers to date.

<...>

Syntronik's hybrid synthesis engine goes well beyond traditional sampling thanks to a brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section. This is coupled with the new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators from real hardware synths.

<...>

When it comes to accurately reproducing the real sound of vintage synthesizers, sampling their oscillators is the only way to ensure truly authentic results.

Unless, of course, what you're complaining about is their assertion that it's "ultimate", "best-sounding" and "truly authentic", which is ridiculous - this is a marketing piece, of course they're going to claim it's the best.

Look, ill try to pinpoint you whats advertised:

new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine
new exclusive DRIFT technology to accurately reproduce the behavior of oscillators
brand new circuit-modeled analog filter section

You can run this via Sampletank 3 wich is not new at all. And check Sampletank filters, they seem to be the same, all the effects are the same just with different skins.
You can say its new, but i dont buy this. Its just a repackaging.

You can argue you want, but you dont really have any argument here to disprove this without IK showing some insight.

you're taking those out of context. i specifically highlighted the explanation of what they mean by "new hybrid synthesis engine" - samples + modeled filters + DRIFT. you are intentionally misrepresenting what the marketing materials say to make your point.

whether or not playing Syntronik in SampleTank will be the same remains to be seen, but if DRIFT is indeed something they have developed specifically for Syntronik, what would likely happen is that they will add this functionality to SampleTank in order to make Syntronik patches playable by it. so technically, it will still be a SampleTank library ("old engine"), but they'll make modifications to the engine to accommodate for Syntronik. i'm sure Peter can clarify this if he's allowed to do so.

and yes, SampleTank 3 already has modeled filters AFAIK. that doesn't mean it's the same filters that would be used by Syntronik.

[rollasoc]

If DRIFT is indeed something they have developed specifically for Syntronik, what would likely happen is that they will add this functionality to SampleTank in order to make Syntronik patches playable by it. so technically, it will still be a SampleTank library ("old engine"), but they'll make modifications to the engine to accommodate for Syntronik. i'm sure Peter can clarify this if he's allowed to do so.

and yes, SampleTank 3 already has modeled filters AFAIK. that doesn't mean it's the same filters that would be used by Syntronik.

IK have stated that ST3 will need to be updated to get Syntronik patches to play. So they are adding new functionality to ST3. Whether or not this new functionality is locked to Syntronik patches or usable on existing samples, remains to be seen.