Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[Dewdman42]

Here is what Peter said

Since there seems to be a lot of oversimplification(as well as overcomplication)/assumption here, I hope this clears it up (in addition to the web site and my multiple descriptions of exactly what Syntronik is and is not):

We provide 4 LAYERS in Syntronik. This is where the user can combine the instruments (single presets) from any of our 17 synths. So if you want to do custom sound design with more control than you have within a single “instrument," you can think of Syntronik as a 4-oscillator synth with each LAYER as a single oscillator.

The added power here is that each LAYER (each “oscillator” in this example) has the ability to contain more than one oscillator of samples. For example, a single LAYER can contain an instrument that has a single sawtooth wave in Osc 1 and a second sawtooth wave in Osc 2 that you can detune. Or maybe Osc 1 has samples of 2 detuned oscillators, and Osc 2 has samples of a single square wave with a suboscillator to create a 4-oscillator sound out of just one “instrument” (just one LAYER). And for those that want total control, you can easily choose an instrument that has just a single oscillator sample in Osc 1, program that the way you want it, then use LAYER 2 for a second oscillator, LAYER 3 for a third oscillator, etc. This is no different than “Elements” in a Yamaha Motif or other rompler. And in fact, this structure goes all the way back to the famous Yamaha CS-80 which has just one oscillator going through the filters with dedicated envelopes. This was a deviation from the traditional idea of multiple oscillators through a single filter like the Minimoog, Oberheims, etc. did. But there is an analog synth precedent for it with the CS-80.

I take this to mean that a single "patch" can contain 4 layers and each layer can contain up to 2 oscillators and each oscillator can be any of the oscillator emulations that they've made from a single oscillator to a detuned oscillator that's a sample of 2 oscillators detuned.

2 osc per layer. Each layer is an instrument with a gui. That is clear. What is not clear is what samples can be used within an instrument on a layer. Will each instrument be limited to only the OSC samples that came from that instrument or can you mix and match the samples like you can the filters?

What none of that tells me is what I'll be seeing at the patch level if I do combine 4 different layers from 4 different "synths." What GUI will I see? Is it a generic one or is there a different GUI for each layer and that GUI will be whichever synth that layer is attached to?

I would guess each layer can have one "instrument" which has one of the 17 classik guis. what is not clear is how you can pull in different filters and different samples for each of them. Its not clear to me why they have all these different guis other than purely cosmetic..he has stated that its basically one synth engine underneath it all, but a lot of samples to choose from. So the question in my mind is whether each of the GUI's basically presents a subset of the samples that correspond to that instrument....feeding into a simplified synth... or if we can highjack samples from other synths into any one of the instruments, basically making it a frankenstein version, regardless of the GUI.

For example. Can I pull up a patch with the A6 GUI and inside that patch load samples from any of the other 16 synths?

Exactly my question

[wagtunes]

LOL! Wags, you making it hard. Read Peter's description. You load a patch into a layer, boom, you're done! That patch will have some number of sample oscillators. That's it, that's all the control you have. If you want a single oscillator in a layer, you load a patch with a single oscillator into that layer.

But there are FOUR LAYERS.

If I use all FOUR LAYERS what am I going to see for the entire patch? Which GUI?

Look at the GUI that I posted on the last page. Each layer has its own button. So, you will choose a layer and whichever patch is loaded in that layer will define the gui that you see. So, if you load a Moog bass into layer 1 and an A6 bass into layer two then when you select each of those layers you will see the Moog GUI and the A6 GUI respectively.

Each layer has one GUI for the patch that's loaded.

So then there is no "overall" GUI for all the layers combined. So then in order to make "adjustments" to the overall patch, you need to go into each layer individually and make the changes for that layer and then do this for each layer you want to make changes for.

Okay, here's the $64,000 question.

What about the filters? Are they on a per layer basis or is there an overall patch filter? And if so, is there a screen for the overall controls? If there is, what will that screen look like? If not, then does that mean you have to adjust the filter for each layer separately? That doesn't make any sense.

[ghettosynth]

LOL! Wags, you making it hard. Read Peter's description. You load a patch into a layer, boom, you're done! That patch will have some number of sample oscillators. That's it, that's all the control you have. If you want a single oscillator in a layer, you load a patch with a single oscillator into that layer.

But there are FOUR LAYERS.

If I use all FOUR LAYERS what am I going to see for the entire patch? Which GUI?

Look at the GUI that I posted on the last page. Each layer has its own button. So, you will choose a layer and whichever patch is loaded in that layer will define the gui that you see. So, if you load a Moog bass into layer 1 and an A6 bass into layer two then when you select each of those layers you will see the Moog GUI and the A6 GUI respectively.

Each layer has one GUI for the patch that's loaded.

So then there is no "overall" GUI for all the layers combined. So then in order to make "adjustments" to the overall patch, you need to go into each layer individually and make the changes for that layer and then do this for each layer you want to make changes for.

Okay, here's the $64,000 question.

What about the filters? Are they on a per layer basis or is there an overall patch filter? And if so, is there a screen for the overall controls? If there is, what will that screen look like? If not, then does that mean you have to adjust the filter for each layer separately? That doesn't make any sense.

Exactly! The filters are on each layer. That's why each GUI has the same filter options. It's one rompler engine that gets loaded with a different gui based on the patch you are loading. That patch defines the samples and settings for the rompler. You can then change those settings, per layer. There is no layer interaction and we don't yet know how the FX interact with the layers because there are no screenshots of the FX page.

[Dewdman42]

as of now my guess is also that the filter is at the instrument level. not globally for all combined layers. I think the layering is nothing more the summing of 4 instruments, whatever they are, but I will wait to hear clarification from Peter. I don't see that is any big deal, i can layer synths in my DAW just as easily, but it will provide a lot of presets to start twiddling with that have nice combinations of layering.

There are all those IK effects built in which have nothing to do with the original instruments so I would assume they are at a global level for whatever comes out of the 4 layers summed together. Now if they provided some kind of mod matrix for hosting those and combining the 4 layers in interesting ways...that would really be something, but I seriously doubt that is the case.

what is not clear is whether each of 17 classik instruments basically allows you to select various samples that came from that instrument, or if you can select other samples from other instruments to mix and match into frankenstein instruments. Or maybe you can't even select samples at all, as ghettosynth is suggesting...you just have to start with one of the existing presets that has hardwired some underlying samples, and twiddle the filter and envelopes a bit..that would suck..but without further clarification...we shall see. if that is the case, then I'm with Ghettosynth, its just an analog sounding rompler.

Mind you, its still worth $69 to me even if that's all it is...but...on the other hand...I'm not sure it will be worth 50GB of disk space if that is the case. I'd like to hear some clarification from Peter.

[quantum7]

I'm tempted by the intro price, but without getting to demo it first, makes it financially risky for me. I'm not trying to diss IKM, but I thought SampleTank 3 was a huge disappointment. I do like their other products though. Is there any way that we will be able to demo it first while the intro price is still available?

[JJ_Jettflow]

Too bad some of the positives about Syntronik had not been discussed like;

-sampled oscillators means low CPU hit.
-ability to mix and match filters and oscillators
-tonal quality of the filters (based solely on the audio demos)
-ability to layer 4 layers

Instead, seems like the thread is dedicated to complaining about how limited it is....

Those things have all been covered, what else do you want to say about them? Nobody's complaining, we are just trying to understand this product. We understand those ideas already.

Not from what I got out of this thread. How many times were these points discussed as opposed to the "it's a ROMpler. ...it's limited" was discussed?

I'm not counting, and I don't care. YOU can talk about whatever YOU want to.

Oh sure I can talk about whatever I want to until I disagree with one of the KVR's "Good Ole Boy" members and for which I am sure of receiving a long, pointless diatribe of how wrong my point of view is.

[ghettosynth]

Too bad some of the positives about Syntronik had not been discussed like;

-sampled oscillators means low CPU hit.
-ability to mix and match filters and oscillators
-tonal quality of the filters (based solely on the audio demos)
-ability to layer 4 layers

Instead, seems like the thread is dedicated to complaining about how limited it is....

Those things have all been covered, what else do you want to say about them? Nobody's complaining, we are just trying to understand this product. We understand those ideas already.

Not from what I got out of this thread. How many times were these points discussed as opposed to the "it's a ROMpler. ...it's limited" was discussed?

I'm not counting, and I don't care. YOU can talk about whatever YOU want to.

Oh sure I can talk about whatever I want to until I disagree with one of the KVR's "Good Ole Boy" members and for which I am sure of receiving a long, pointless diatribe of how wrong my point of view is.

Well, cmon, people disagree, that's how discussions work.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Too bad some of the positives about Syntronik had not been discussed like;

-sampled oscillators means low CPU hit.
-ability to mix and match filters and oscillators
-tonal quality of the filters (based solely on the audio demos)
-ability to layer 4 layers

Instead, seems like the thread is dedicated to complaining about how limited it is....

Those things have all been covered, what else do you want to say about them? Nobody's complaining, we are just trying to understand this product. We understand those ideas already.

Not from what I got out of this thread. How many times were these points discussed as opposed to the "it's a ROMpler. ...it's limited" was discussed?

I'm not counting, and I don't care. YOU can talk about whatever YOU want to.

Oh sure I can talk about whatever I want to until I disagree with one of the KVR's "Good Ole Boy" members and for which I am sure of receiving a long, pointless diatribe of how wrong my point of view is.

Well, cmon, people disagree, that's how discussions work.

True but I think that sometimes, whether the poster is aware of it or not, their posts may come across to a reader the wrong way and may cause a bit of tension. I know for myself, I tend to make very quick replies due to the fact I am responding while at work most of the time and then they come across as curt...which, of course, is not the intention. I don't come here to argue, I got married for that!

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread on products so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

[ghettosynth]

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

Just start one, there's not guarantee that people will use it, you have to make it compelling.

[JJ_Jettflow]

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

Just start one, there's not guarantee that people will use it, you have to make it compelling.

No, I was thinking more of like an official product release thread on its own and then another to get into deeper discussions. Just a thought though.

[ghettosynth]

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

Just start one, there's not guarantee that people will use it, you have to make it compelling.

No, I was thinking more of like an official product release thread on its own and then another to get into deeper discussions. Just a thought though.

IKM should do that in their own forum where they have moderation privileges or on their own website where they completely run the show. This is a general discussion forum, so, it has a large readership, but you also run the risk that people are going to have a different conversation than the one that you expect.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to use a forum like this to sell because it attracts many users who wouldn't come here if they couldn't have a conversation, then you have to accept that people will have a conversation.

[JJ_Jettflow]

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

Just start one, there's not guarantee that people will use it, you have to make it compelling.

No, I was thinking more of like an official product release thread on its own and then another to get into deeper discussions. Just a thought though.

IKM should do that in their own forum where they have moderation privileges or on their own website where they completely run the show. This is a general discussion forum, so, it has a large readership, but you also run the risk that people are going to have a different conversation than the one that you expect.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to use a forum like this to sell because it attracts many users who wouldn't come here if they couldn't have a conversation, then you have to accept that people will have a conversation.

No, I wasn't speaking about just IK; all new products from any company that gets posted and in the general forum as a"new release", "forthcoming release" or "official thread". It is not about a company running its own show; it is about having a thread where one can find info and not have to sort through countless pages of esoteric discussion to find pertinent information.

I can think of 3 product threads where I was interested in a product that just turned into a free-for-all and I only posted in two of them. The 3rd one had devolved so disgracefully, I decided to search elsewhere because of much of the same thing; discussions that appear to be more just plain arguing and not much product info.

[ghettosynth]

One thing I think would be good here at KVR if there were a second thread so people could get into deeper discussions but not bog down the thread for those coming to seek quick info.

Just start one, there's not guarantee that people will use it, you have to make it compelling.

No, I was thinking more of like an official product release thread on its own and then another to get into deeper discussions. Just a thought though.

IKM should do that in their own forum where they have moderation privileges or on their own website where they completely run the show. This is a general discussion forum, so, it has a large readership, but you also run the risk that people are going to have a different conversation than the one that you expect.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to use a forum like this to sell because it attracts many users who wouldn't come here if they couldn't have a conversation, then you have to accept that people will have a conversation.

No, I wasn't speaking about just IK; all new products from any company that gets posted and in the general forum as a"new release", "forthcoming release" or "official thread". It is not about a company running its own show; it is about having a thread where one can find info and not have to sort through countless pages of esoteric discussion to find pertinent information.

I can think of 3 product threads where I was interested in a product that just turned into a free-for-all and I only posted in two of them. The 3rd one had devolved so disgracefully, I decided to search elsewhere because of much of the same thing; discussions that appear to be more just plain arguing and not much product info.

Start two threads that are companions like the deals thread. "New Product Releases - Announcements Only", "New Product Releases - Discussion" Then when people post off topic report the posts as off topic.

It works for deals.

The thing is, I don't think vendors will care much because there's no buzz and the buzz that is there is competitive. They want their own threads like this one and they want them in the general forums so that they get lots of attention.

So, largely, it will be up to participants to post in the threads. I think that it could work though. I like it as much as you do because it not only stifles the negative discussion, but also the positive gushing. That might be something that a lot of people don't realize, some of us find the gushing and fawning WAY more annoying than the actual discussion of a product's capabilities.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Start two threads that are companions like the deals thread. "New Product Releases - Announcements Only", "New Product Releases - Discussion" Then when people post off topic report the posts as off topic.

It works for deals.

The thing is, I don't think vendors will care much because there's no buzz and the buzz that is there is competitive. They want their own threads like this one and they want them in the general forums so that they get lots of attention.

So, largely, it will be up to participants to post in the threads. I think that it could work though. I like it as much as you do because it not only stifles the negative discussion, but also the positive gushing. That might be something that a lot of people don't realise, some of us find the gushing and fawning WAY more annoying than the actual discussion of a product's capabilities.

To me, extremely positive remarks with no substance are on the same level as comments that come off as product bashing, so if something like this would eliminate both, along with the personal attacks, then I am all for it.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Peter, here are a few questions.. hopefully easy to answer...

1. can I choose any sample from the entire collection to use within a particular instrument as a source OSC? or if I am looking at the SY99 screen(for example), will I only be able to select SY99 samples to use in OSC1 and OSC2?
2. I read somewhere that I can use any of the filters in any of the instruments...so that is similar to question #1, but I think already answers that YES, I can mix and match the filters in the instruments to get different results.
3. You have the layers...ok...is there any synth processing that can be done to all the layers as a whole...or at least FX processing? In other words, does synth processing need to happen entirely within each of the layers or can we really layer the bare OSC's from different instruments and then process that resulting layered OSC through the synth and FX engine?

1. You would select the instrument you want to use (thus the oscillator(s)) and then go from there. For other instruments' oscillators you'd use another instrument on another layer.
2. Yes you can choose filters that are not normally associated with the synth you're working with in Syntronik
3. There is no master bus processing inside Syntronik. Think of it as 4 complete synths with their own effects.