Anyway, guess we're already in the middle of the Mac vs. PC debate again. Why? Well i do now, but, to not let that escalate, i think i'll rather pull back, and keep my own thoughts on the matter.
New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros
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- KVRAF
- 35687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Frankly, apart from resale value, i don't see anything relevant though. Build quality for a 4k $ PC? Should be as good as on the Mac Pro, if not better. Maintenance? Where is the statistic saying that a PC needs more maintenance than a Mac? "Value of software"? Well, the OS is for free, and professional software is expensive, no matter if it is for PC, or for Mac. "You evaluate computers the way it is done in the 1990's". Well, i don't see how it would have changed in 2017, unless you mean some esoteric measurement of the performance of PC's by price tag, or company name and fame. "Durability" - mmh... yeah... well the Macbook of a relative had a harddrive crash after 6 months of usage, and the Apple "Mighty" Mouse is a complete fail in terms of durability. In fact, i have never witnessed one of my PC mouses fail on the scroll wheel.
Anyway, guess we're already in the middle of the Mac vs. PC debate again. Why? Well i do now, but, to not let that escalate, i think i'll rather pull back, and keep my own thoughts on the matter.
Let me just finalize my opinion with a last sentence. I really, really fail to see that Mac's are so much better than PC's, and that's what Mac owners usually claim. Each to his like, but, there's really no point in telling yourself that your Porsche is the best car in the world every day, when there are Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, and Bugatti's too. At the best, you have a very good (and, especially, very premium) car, which is competing with the best cars from other manufacturers, but, it's surely not the best of the best, just because it is a tad more expensive. Actually, i'm pretty sure that many Macbook users would be stunned how good a Surface Book is (if they overcome their disgust about the "ordinary" OS
). I don't really see much of a difference in terms of quality, both hardware and software wise.
Anyway, guess we're already in the middle of the Mac vs. PC debate again. Why? Well i do now, but, to not let that escalate, i think i'll rather pull back, and keep my own thoughts on the matter.
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- KVRist
- 354 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Melbourne Australia
Herewegoagain
Durability, maintenance for sure are waaaay overstated these days in the Mac world. My friends nearly all run DAWs on Macs, and I would say over the past 10 years on average I actually have noticeably less software and hardware problems than them.
The value of design... that is a very personal thing. IMO I think Apple have made some terrible design decisions over the past 5-10 years. How did you like that trashcan? Or the mice that keep breaking?
Also when the DO get it wrong, it looks laughable to us PC guys with that premium price tag
Speed of OS development....Bwhahahahahahah. at the cost of useability...Talk about breaking your software every 12 months!
Integration with other computing devices.... you mean like itunes? (most hated software ever)
Sorry I couldn't help myself
I think some of those points are valid.... but not many!stratology wrote:Regarding the price point, let me repeat something I posted on GS a few days ago.
You can have a 'powerful' PC for less money than a similar Mac as long as:
- you ignore total cost of ownership
- you ignore resale value
- you evaluate computers the way it was done in the 1990s (CPU speed and RAM tunnel vision)
- you ignore the value of software - both the OS and included apps
- you ignore the quality and speed of connections to peripherals
- you ignore build quality and materials
- you ignore the value of design (meaning actual design, like the design of trackpads, not 'looks')
- you ignore durability
- you ignore follow up cost for pro software (compare the price of Motion to similar PC apps. Or developer tools. Or FCP.)
- you ignore time spent for maintenance
- you ignore the speed of OS development
- you ignore integration with other computing devices
- you ignore actual customer satisfaction as a valid metric
Durability, maintenance for sure are waaaay overstated these days in the Mac world. My friends nearly all run DAWs on Macs, and I would say over the past 10 years on average I actually have noticeably less software and hardware problems than them.
The value of design... that is a very personal thing. IMO I think Apple have made some terrible design decisions over the past 5-10 years. How did you like that trashcan? Or the mice that keep breaking?
Also when the DO get it wrong, it looks laughable to us PC guys with that premium price tag
Speed of OS development....Bwhahahahahahah. at the cost of useability...Talk about breaking your software every 12 months!
Integration with other computing devices.... you mean like itunes? (most hated software ever)
Sorry I couldn't help myself
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- KVRAF
- 35687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
And here we go again.
Just because someone dared to speak it out - that a 5k Mac is 1-2k more expensive than a comparable PC. So reasons have to be found why this premium is better than that premium. Welcome to the happy world of consumerism. 
BTW, IMO, Apple's devices should be even more expensive. I mean, seriously, where is the exclusivity, if everyone can afford an iPhone one day? I guess it's more of a consideration on their side though. Exclusivity, and premium on one side, market share on the other.
BTW, IMO, Apple's devices should be even more expensive. I mean, seriously, where is the exclusivity, if everyone can afford an iPhone one day? I guess it's more of a consideration on their side though. Exclusivity, and premium on one side, market share on the other.
- KVRist
- 202 posts since 31 May, 2004 from Ireland
No, it's not. I was not talking about design in terms of looks. I mentioned the trackpad, because I haven't seen a PC trackpad that works nearly as good as Mac trackpads. Not even in the ballpark. Other design examples are how the OSs approach security, durability of unibody aluminium cases, magnetic latches, asymmetrical fan blades to reduce fan noise, backlit keyboards, etc.Terrafractyl wrote: The value of design... that is a very personal thing.
WTF are you talking about??Terrafractyl wrote: Talk about breaking your software every 12 months!
iTunes is software, not a computing device (hardware).Terrafractyl wrote: Integration with other computing devices.... you mean like itunes? (most hated software ever)
What I was talking about is that I can take a photo on my phone or iPad, and it shows up in Aperture or Photos.app right away, without any kind of user interaction. My passwords are synced between my devices, without interaction. If you have multiple Macs, you can now have shared desktops. Etc.
Question:
You seem fairly unfamiliar with Mac and iOS basics, do you actually own any Apple devices? Or do you visit Apple threads for the purpose of trolling and feeling important?
- KVRist
- 202 posts since 31 May, 2004 from Ireland
Obviously.Chapelle wrote: I never had a Mac.
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- KVRAF
- 2329 posts since 2 Jul, 2007
whats the comparable pc with same specs pc price vs. the new imac?
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PEDALS: Chase Bliss Blooper + Mood MK II
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- KVRAF
- 35687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
If you understand german: https://www.macwelt.de/a/faktencheck-im ... en,3437171trusampler wrote:whats the comparable pc with same specs pc price vs. the new imac?
They say that the PC Gamer mag calculated a similarly spec'd Windows PC at $4687, and Dell obviously sells a quite similar workstation for 4149 €. Not quite sure if they really compare to the base iMac Pro though. Also the source being a Mac news portal is maybe not the most unbiased source you can get. I'm sure there'll be some more comparison, especially as the price is so high, and people WILL compare it to similar Windows workstations. I also have no doubt that the Windows PC will be considerably cheaper.
- KVRist
- 202 posts since 31 May, 2004 from Ireland
Chapelle wrote:So you admit that your points are pretty much bullshit?
- KVRAF
- 2147 posts since 30 Oct, 2006 from Australia, NSW
seriously a mac vs pc debate in 2017 how twee ..choice is good ..competition is good ..buy what suits your needs for music production
or your budget. Put your energy into actually creating some music instead of whinging over specs and price point
or your budget. Put your energy into actually creating some music instead of whinging over specs and price point
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- KVRAF
- 35687 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
You're right. So let's stop pretending Mac is so much better by default, shall we?risome wrote:seriously a mac vs pc debate in 2017 how twee ..choice is good ..competition is good ..buy what suits your needs for music production
or your budget. Put your energy into actually creating some music instead of whinging over specs and price point
- KVRist
- 202 posts since 31 May, 2004 from Ireland
What do you mean 'pretend'???chk071 wrote:So let's stop pretending Mac is so much better by default, shall we?
Seriously, though - it's a thread about the announcement of a new iMac, why, why, why do PC users that don't even own a Mac and have zero understanding about anything Apple feel the irresistible urge to troll?
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- KVRAF
- 3369 posts since 16 Jan, 2005 from Ottawa, Ontario
Last chime by me (hopefully)stratology wrote:What do you mean 'pretend'???chk071 wrote:So let's stop pretending Mac is so much better by default, shall we?
Seriously, though - it's a thread about the announcement of a new iMac, why, why, why do PC users that don't even own a Mac and have zero understanding about anything Apple feel the irresistible urge to troll?
... and the idea that you shouldn't judge a computer on its horsepower (1990's)?! Really?? ...so 12 more cores is bad here somehow. Twelve. Double the RAM? Also bad. 12 more cores and double the RAM is tunnel vision.
... What does "total cost of ownership" mean? I thought you wanted cost to be low
... and design??, this is just rude. With such incredible heating problems (I didn't even know about till this thread) and complete lack of configurability, I doubt you should be touting design as a major bonus....
The rest of that list that IMO was completely hollow; entirely dogmatic. My dual CPU build was hasty, but still had mostly A-class parts. There's no quality build problem there. I have an old 486 that still runs just fine. PCs last, cousin Mac!
I guess I was trying to see what aside from different software you were getting. This thread ends this curiosity for me. There seems to be a fair amount of bad info about PCs in Mac convention, and aesthetics matter alot as well. Aesthetics is fine, but the 'better' or even 'similar' machine critique is impossible to trust seeing what passes for criticism

Sorry... couldn't resist. This is EXACTLY what came to mind.
- KVRist
- 202 posts since 31 May, 2004 from Ireland
then..Debutante wrote:"alternative facts"
Debutante wrote:incredible heating problems
Thank you so much for educating us.