New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[Late_Bloomer]

Though, in a way, it does come off as religious fanaticism.

The whole Apple=religion idiocy always comes from people who really don't get technology...

In some cases, sure, I would agree. However, the difference is that I was referring to a specific case - yours, but you chose to go for a generalization instead. 'Religious fanaticism' reference wasn't directed at your platform preference. It was directed at your obviously biased stance on the matter. It's almost as if your well-being depends on proving someone that any negative experience they might've had with Apple products was ultimately their fault. Not to say there's a shortage of incompetent users out there, but that still doesn't justify any sort of generalization. That is if you prefer to remain reasonable.

Now, I might not "really get" technology, but I do have experience with both platforms. Yes, more on Windows than on OS X. After being a strictly Windows user for well over a decade, for the past 7 months I have been enjoying using a Hackintosh without any issues whatsoever. I will be the first to admit that I, personally, consider OS X experience to be much smoother than my previous experience on Windows systems. I'm mainly referring to music production related aspects. For general use, personally, I do not feel I'd be missing much, if anything, by remaining a Windows user. Meaning if it wasn't for music production, I most definitely wouldn't choose to adapt a different platform in search of a better general user experience, but I recognize that it is very much subjective.

I feel it's important to point out that the main reason I decided to even try out OS X is due to having an option of going Hackintosh route. Customization is a huge factor to me. I would never be able to justify buying a system, especially at a cost of Apple products, that I couldn't customize to my needs and not just be limited by certain configurations offered by a vendor. Sure, there is some components configuration flexibility, but it's far from the kind of flexibility I'm looking for, so that is exactly why I strongly believe Hackintosh is the best of both worlds.

[stratology]

However, the difference is that I was referring to a specific case - yours, but you chose to go for a generalization instead.

Blah blah blah. I want to talk about metadata based search, you want to talk about me.


You genuinely think that seeing the advantage of a Unix based OS, of modern metadata handling, of including backup and password management software, of glass trackpads, of unibody aluminium casings, of custom firmware chips that allow the fastest SSD read speeds on the market, of 200Hz display refresh rates, of a built in Apache web server, of the ability to switch network locations with a click, of Thunderbolt 3 connectivity that is multiple times faster than USB3, of magsafe adapters, of best in class accessibility features, of being able to switch languages on the fly on a per-app basis, of an audio plug in system that's part of the OS, of free developer tools, of an included DAW, of magnetic latches, of pdf display tech that's part of the OS, of rootless (SIP), of being able to type an umlaut without having to memorise ASCII codes, of immediate wake up when opening the lid on a laptop, of energy efficiency, of adhering to environmental standards, of a seamless transition to 24bit, of a seamless transition to a new file system, of shared desktops, of core midi and core audio technologies, are somehow irrelevant, because we Mac users choose the platform because of unspecified 'religious' reasons and vanity???

[chk071]

Man, you should really take some time off the net.

..says the guy with over 12,000 posts in 7 years to the guy with 36 posts in 13 years..

If you go on, you will catch up quickly.

[Late_Bloomer]

However, the difference is that I was referring to a specific case - yours, but you chose to go for a generalization instead.

Blah blah blah. I want to talk about metadata based search, you want to talk about me.


You genuinely think that seeing the advantage of a Unix based OS, of modern metadata handling, of including backup and password management software, of glass trackpads, of unibody aluminium casings, of custom firmware chips that allow the fastest SSD read speeds on the market, of 200Hz display refresh rates, of a built in Apache web server, of the ability to switch network locations with a click, of Thunderbolt 3 connectivity that is multiple times faster than USB3, of magsafe adapters, of best in class accessibility features, of being able to switch languages on the fly on a per-app basis, of an audio plug in system that's part of the OS, of free developer tools, of an included DAW, of magnetic latches, of pdf display tech that's part of the OS, of rootless (SIP), of being able to type an umlaut without having to memorise ASCII codes, of immediate wake up when opening the lid on a laptop, of energy efficiency, of adhering to environmental standards, of a seamless transition to 24bit, of a seamless transition to a new file system, of shared desktops, of core midi and core audio technologies, are somehow irrelevant, because we Mac users choose the platform because of unspecified 'religious' reasons and vanity???

Whoa! It's becoming vividly obvious that your overblown ego and a ridiculous sense of entitlement gets in a way of having even a remotely unbiased and reasonably mannered discussion with anyone who doesn't share your Mac/Apple fetish and blind obsession with its ecosystem. Do you use your Mac as a computer? Or do you straight up make love to it as if it is your partner? I bet you take it with you everywhere you go and probably even gave it a name to further establish an "emotional" bond. Good for you!

None of the mambo-jumbo you've listed in your technological drivel has any effect on my ability to have a carefree experience working in a DAW of my choice either on OS X or a Windows based system. Anything outside of that scope is irrelevant to me. I use my system for a very specific set of tasks. Stroking my ego by exuding superiority complex towards anyone with a differing opinion isn't one of them. Keep on keeping on, MacGyver!

[Chapelle]

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[stratology]

your overblown ego and a ridiculous sense of entitlement!

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahahhaha. (sniff)

[stratology]

of an included DAW

Yeah, another important one. Anyone serious about music production and engineering uses Garageband.

A poor craftsman blames his tools.
St. Vincent wrote her entire 2nd album exclusively in Garageband. Fantastic record.


As to your other points: of course you can have some features, like decent trackpads, on PCs, many years after they show up on Macs. Of course you can babysit a computer to provide all kinds of things that are not included, but the fact that they are included means no additional cost for backup software, no time spent researching, installing, keeping up with updates, etc.



You may talk about 'religious' devotion to a platform. I like Macs, but I'm not that devoted that I would spend my time going to Windows threads, to advertise my platform of choice. This puts a perspective on the religious devotion of Windows users, who feel compelled to enter threads about new Mac hardware, to preach their platform.



A few year ago, I had 9 different operating systems installed on a Mac, on partitions and in VMs. Guess which one was, by far, the worst? ChromeOS was the second worst. I don't recall which Linux distro I had installed, but I remember that it left a very positive impression...

[chk071]

Well, if someone makes a whole list of completely wrong, and generalized assumptions like this:

You can have a 'powerful' PC for less money than a similar Mac as long as:

- you ignore total cost of ownership
- you ignore resale value
- you evaluate computers the way it was done in the 1990s (CPU speed and RAM tunnel vision)
- you ignore the value of software - both the OS and included apps
- you ignore the quality and speed of connections to peripherals
- you ignore build quality and materials
- you ignore the value of design (meaning actual design, like the design of trackpads, not 'looks')
- you ignore durability
- you ignore follow up cost for pro software (compare the price of Motion to similar PC apps. Or developer tools. Or FCP.)
- you ignore time spent for maintenance
- you ignore the speed of OS development
- you ignore integration with other computing devices
- you ignore actual customer satisfaction as a valid metric

... you can't expect to have noone comment on it. But, you're right about one point. I don't have any interest in buying an iMac Pro. I rather stick to devices which you give you more bang for the buck, and don't come with the snobby "we do everything better" attitude, which isn't justified at all.

[Chapelle]

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[Zexila]

Totally agree. On one hand, the old familiar gear is often faster than the new expensive learning curve.

Yeah, great point.

On the other hand, I will soon need a Mac Pro!

The time has come. Make one of those "it's that time again...." threads

[Michael L]

Zexila, we're ahead of our time (as Macheads are all the time): the time for an "It's that time again" thread --in the MacPro release timetable-- is sometime in 2018!

[legendCNCD]

You're a Windows user, right?
You obviously are unfamiliar with Macs.
Why do you visit Mac threads?
Why do you make up issues that you obviously have no real-world experience with?

Yes.
No.
I'm interested in new technology.
Umm, I just wrote previously that I have real-world experience, also you can even listen to those from my signature. I wont say which ones were made with Logic on Mac

[stratology]

I wont say which ones were made with Logic on Mac

That may be one of the most important points. As long as you get great sounding results, who cares how it was done.

There are different needs and priorities.
Earlier this year, a studio owner/producer and a filmmaker visited me here in Ireland, to shoot a music video. They were here for 10 days, extremely busy. Half a day of that time was used to re-install Windows. I will never be able to understand why anyone puts up with that. Nonetheless, the results this guy produces on his heavy, clunky, unreliable piece of junk Windows laptop are nothing short of amazing.

[Guenon]

Stratology, during a typical day of getting things done , out of the total time I'm using a computer workstation, around 90-95% is spent inside a DAW application or some other specialized audio software. I've actually time tracked this. Most of the remaining time goes into different communication webapps that the productions I'm involved in have chosen to use, usually Slack these days.

Of course, project days differ, but the general idea is this: the overwhelming majority of my time on a computer is spent in professional applications that look and feel 1:1 the same no matter what platform you run them on. Power, stability and dependability in running those applications is the top priority.

As far as personal anecdotes go, I can honestly say for me there's very little difference using an appropriate PC or Mac system in this manner. Some of the best and most dependable audio systems I've ever used, anywhere, have been PCs running RME audio hardware, for example.

Having experience in game studio settings that use multiple platforms in the same production environment, and having personally used different varieties of Windows, OSX/macOS, Linux, iOS and Android (not to mention archaic stuff way back, like OS/2, BeOS, MS-DOS and so on), in my opinion most of the things you bring up are extraneous when actual professional music/audio work in today's world is concerned.

To me, your way of presenting these things has a distinct feel of debating technology and features for their own sake, removed from the actual working situation. Hah, I recognize this because I've been there. That is, being tech-savvy just to be tech-savvy, and then picking talking points based on that mindset.

It descends into a mode of petty bickering rather quickly. It's like, you bring up metadata searches, someone else brings up that audio professionals often prefer using specialized audio searching/cataloguing software that is also capable of extended audio functionality anyway. You say trackpads, someone says they prefer trackpoints. You say "feature X included in the price", someone says "but I don't want that", while not being uneducated in their preference at all. You say build quality, someone says "yeah good build quality is great, luckily it isn't platform dependent at all", yada yada, so it goes.

And all the while there are people working on their real-world projects, using the same applications, and have 1:1 the same solid user experience for the vast majority of their time, no matter which platform they are doing it on.

Commenting only on my own behalf here, I have the licenses for my preferred professional software already. I'm not starting from scratch every time. I don't want or need the additional leveraged cost of a "do-it-all" package every time I'm purchasing a new workstation. I don't appreciate being charged a considerably increasing premium on hardware features that should be trivial changes from the system builder's point of view (choosing larger capacity RAM or SSD, for example). And so on. Note that I'm not mentioning any specific platform here; these are some of my personal preferences when considering a new system, no matter what it says on the tin.

Most importantly, though:

A poor craftsman blames his tools.
St. Vincent wrote her entire 2nd album exclusively in Garageband. Fantastic record.

If this is truly your philosophy, and how you view GarageBand in a professional music production setting , I suggest you extend your line of thinking also to whole systems and working situations. If comparing GarageBand to other music/audio environments leads to a "poor craftsman blaming his tools" comment, then comparing extraneous features of systems running the exact same production tools (and offering practically the exact same user experience, for the people using the said tools for most of their time)... must also lead to a comment of the same nature.

I'm not interested in discussing this further, however, as it's quite clear from your tone and mindset how a thread like this will proceed. I opted to air my views in one long post instead of several futile back-and-forths, just to get it out there for those who are entertained enough to read it, haha. So yeah. Carry on, maybe slightly less biased if possible.

[stratology]

If this is truly your philosophy, and how you view GarageBand in a professional music production setting , I suggest you extend your line of thinking also to whole systems and working situations.

You're making many good points, I agree with pretty much everything in your post.

Regarding GarageBand: dismissing it as a toy simply doesn't do it justice. A DAW is a toolbox. It was the right tool at the time for St. Vincent to write her 2nd album and do pre-production, but the final production was done in Protools, in a studio, AFAIK.

Another case in point: I received a great sounding demo from another musician recently, done in GarageBand, because his old Mac, although working perfectly, does not support the current release of LPX. Sounded better than some things I had done in the 'more professional' DAWs DP and Logic, because his front end (mic pres, converters) is better than what I have, and because he's a better engineer.