New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[Rappo Clappo]

"Deep down, I think it's unethical to present systems like this as high quality computers, built for the good of the customer."

@Guenon

Lmao do you think ads are meant to be ethical? Name one... I'm quite sure they make them as unethical as can be.

However, that discussion is meant for another forum. Don't talk nonsense though.

[robotmonkey]

Off topic, but fun: check 2 things:
- are reverse DNS zones configured for all the servers?
- do any servers have .local hostnames?

These are, to my knowledge, the most common giveaways to find out if a Windows sysadmin knows what he/she is doing.

LOL, these show absolutely nothing about Windows sysadmins.

[robotmonkey]

OK, very slowly, so everyone can comprehend.

8 years ago, Mac OS X 10.6 was released.

The current version of macOS is 10.12.

There have been 6 full OS releases since then.

Any release older than the current release is 'outdated'.

The term 'hopelessly outdated' is an appropriate description for an OS that is 6 releases behind, and missed structural security updates of each of the 6 releases, IMHO.

This is just not how the things work in an enterprise software world. In Mac, yes maybe, as it's consumer oriented and Apple has a appalling record of keeping backward compatibility.

In Windows and enterprise Linux it's very common that several versions of the OS are kept active and supported for a long time. Windows 7 is in active support and will get security fixes until 2020. Suse Enterprise Server 11, for example, will be in support until 2022 and the new version 12 until 2027.

One could say that they are outdated in a sense that there's newer versions out, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with using those versions until they are updated. Even though Windows 10 has inherently a bit better security by default, all the discovered security problems of Windows 7 will still be fixed.

[Rappo Clappo]

Still, on behalf of switching poles, stratology has not answered whyterabbyt's question.

[whyterabbyt]

Recently, over 230,000 computers running Windows 7 were compromised by Wannacry. 0 Macs, regardless of how old, were compromised.


Windows users will find any excuse to distract from that simple, irrefutable fact.

Seemingly Mac users will find any excuse to avoid backing up a single statement they've made that they've been asked to provide evidence for by handwaving stuff about 'windows users' that has nothing to do with the statement.

But if it makes you feel better, there were no OSX systems compromised by WannaCry. And no Amiga systems, CPM-80 systems or PDP-11s either, so obviously they must be more secure too.

Of course, absolutely no Windows systems have ever been compromised by any OSX exploit, but we wont mention that, as is its probably a bit too logical for you.

And now that we've got that disingenuous red herring out of the way, perhaps you could finally get around explaining the lifecycle of 'responsibility for security' versus the time elapsed since the release of an OS that is still receiving security updates.

[stratology]

During an actual workday, staying focused inside the DAW software environment, chances are that the functionality and user experience are practically 1:1 the same, no matter which platform you use.

So the difference between your typical DAW use and my typical DAW use is that you never use the OS and included apps to search for audio files, back up your audio project, browse archived projects that you backed up, use external hardware, use multiple computers, tag files, sell your computer when you get the next one.

As it's all the same, you also never install antivirus software, any drivers except for one piece of audio hardware, customise the computer to protect your privacy, customise your computer to increase performance, update to the current OS within 3 months of release without issues, etc.

True, totally the same.

[stratology]

Still, on behalf of switching poles, stratology has not answered whyterabbyt's question.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.

[stratology]

This is just not how the things work in an enterprise software world.

What's with the 'enterprise software world'? Are you actually recommending to install DAWs on a server OS??


If you want to talk servers, we can do that. macOS server is a powerful server for small to medium businesses. We can compare price (€22 for full blown server software with unlimited client licenses), ease of set up and deployment, features (like the included MDM and caching servers), Time Machine Server features, Xcode server, and why .local hostnames and reverse zones are a differentiators between sysadmins that know server and networking fundamentals as opposed to sysadmins who know how to configure a Windows server without understanding the technical background.


On a Mac client machine, it takes only 5 clicks to bind the Mac to either an Active Directory or Open Directory.
How easy is it to bind a Windows client to an Open Directory on a Mac or Unix server?

[whyterabbyt]

Still, on behalf of switching poles, stratology has not answered whyterabbyt's question.

I can explain it to you,

and yet you havent.

[stratology]

Still, on behalf of switching poles, stratology has not answered whyterabbyt's question.

I can explain it to you,

and yet you havent.

"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."
"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."

[whyterabbyt]

Still, on behalf of switching poles, stratology has not answered whyterabbyt's question.

I can explain it to you,

and yet you havent.

"Yes I did."
"No you didn't."

See, anyone honest would have posted a link to the answer you allegedly posted (you know, the one with actual references as requested.)

But since you've done nothing but avoid the question, by means of red herrings, moved goalposts, and other sillies, you cant do that. So more sillies. Lamentable.

[Rappo Clappo]

@stratology

It was an observation, not a request. I am just curious. Because.. one is still able to purchase a W7 license. FYI

[chk071]

@stratology

It was an observation, not a request. I am just curious. Because.. one is still able to purchase a W7 license. FYI

My advice: Stay away from threads like these, if you want serious, and profounded informations. Actually that is the issue, and why this threads has taken such a turn, from pretty much the beginning. People claim things, people state that it is not right to claim those things, people claim other things, and so on. Frankly, it's gotta hurt that your new, shiny, expensive Mac is just a computer too, so i can understand it, to some extent.

[Guenon]

You're making many good points, I agree with pretty much everything in your post.

The main point of the post you already agreed with in this manner; your reaction some days later when, presumably, not thinking as calmly:

So the difference between your typical DAW use and my typical DAW use is that you never use the OS and included apps to search for audio files, back up your audio project, browse archived projects that you backed up, use external hardware, use multiple computers, tag files, sell your computer when you get the next one.

As it's all the same, you also never install antivirus software, any drivers except for one piece of audio hardware, customise the computer to protect your privacy, customise your computer to increase performance, update to the current OS within 3 months of release without issues, etc.

True, totally the same.

See my previous post you already agreed with.

In your list above, there are again multiple problems, implied straw man arguments and incorrect assumptions that go all over the place instead of dealing with the main issues brought up. Still, instead of being brushed aside as low quality comebacks, they should really be tackled one by one in detail. But what for?

The thing is, when compared to the big picture, the totality of the current Apple design ethos and the state of their software/hardware policies nowadays (again, the things that I personally find most problematic, see the links and my points that you haven't reacted to), just coming up with comebacks of whether I use a specialized audio tool for managing my project files or the OS itself, and similar points, feels somehow so petty and insignificant. Yes, I never installed antivirus software on my PC DAW systems, yes I literally only installed one driver (which was for the audio hardware) on my current main workstation, blabla, yes people "customise their computer to protect their privacy" [sic] on all platforms, yes people customise their computer to increase performance on all platforms, no it's not mandatory to get good performance, yes they may do it anyway if they can, blabla. And yes, after all of this is said and done, the overwhelming majority of my work time is spent inside the actual cross-platform DAW software, in which the working experience is pretty much platform agnostic.

This style of discussion will perpetually stay on its predictable course. All the while Apple keeps selling their monolithic computers with all the components like even the SSDs soldered on, batteries firmly glued in place, and largely using the architectural edge of the operating system to facilitate the sales of such "high quality" computers, charging a premium on everything while doing it.

Also, without explicitly committing to a long OS support cycle, they have the power to lure users with the architectural edge of the OS, then keep changing from one OS version to the next, dropping support early (like you have outlined yourself). It's a well designed tool for driving monolithic computer system sales.

The best that can come out of an exchange like this is, instead of bickering about singular preferences and working habits, it can present some large-scale issues to people who might not have thought about them before. Given the tone and rambling nature of the thread, even that is unlikely. It is, however, the only reason I occasionally respond ^ like this, although I actively try to avoid getting sucked into the, ahem, discussion any more than I already have.

Mr. chk071 summed up the dynamics of threads like this perfectly above. Yep.

[robotmonkey]

This is just not how the things work in an enterprise software world.

What's with the 'enterprise software world'? Are you actually recommending to install DAWs on a server OS??


If you want to talk servers, we can do that. macOS server is a powerful server for small to medium businesses. We can compare price (€22 for full blown server software with unlimited client licenses), ease of set up and deployment, features (like the included MDM and caching servers), Time Machine Server features, Xcode server, and why .local hostnames and reverse zones are a differentiators between sysadmins that know server and networking fundamentals as opposed to sysadmins who know how to configure a Windows server without understanding the technical background.


On a Mac client machine, it takes only 5 clicks to bind the Mac to either an Active Directory or Open Directory.
How easy is it to bind a Windows client to an Open Directory on a Mac or Unix server?

Who said anything about server os? You really do not get it do you? Or just can't admit you're not making sense.

As far as sysadmin skills are concerned, these two arbitrarily chosen very basic points say more something about you than any Windows sysadmin. If you'd know anything about that stuff you could at least have tried harder and pointed to something actually advanced like PowerShell, AD commandline management, clustering, NPS or any other advanced concepts.

And by the way. Macos Server is absolutely complete crap in an enterprise environment. Way way way inferior to Windows in pretty much every regard.