KVR Audio

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:32 am

On Mac - e.g. LogicX - HALion does not distribute it's load amongst multiple cores for a single patch. Only when one uses multis (several patches in several slots) can HALion distribute it's CPU load if one has the option activated.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:36 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:On Mac - e.g. LogicX - HALion does not distribute it's load amongst multiple cores for a single patch. Only when one uses multis (several patches in several slots) can HALion distribute it's CPU load if one has the option activated.

More info on this topic in the Steinberg forum here:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewto ... 09#p616909

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:54 am

SLiC wrote:also and I cant see myself needing more looping envelopes, LFO's, Step Sequencers, Flexiphraser etc. 'per zone'

You perhaps can't but I can and so can others. Plus, you can add modulation at any level in Falcon, which is not QUITE true in Halion, AFAICT. It's simply more flexible, LESS LIMITED. Of course CPU is going to be a limit with ANY instrument, be it multicore or not, but BEING ABLE to GO DEEPER and not have a FIXED NUMBER OF ELEMENTS is a pro, not a con.

SLiC wrote:IMHO multicore optimisation needs to be designed in to the structure of instruments such as this, even if that imposes limits!

Well this is flawed reasoning. As mentioned, you cannot have great modularity without some tradeoffs. Multicore is one of those tradeoffs. UVI set out to create an extremely flexible instrument, and they sure managed to do it. They didn't want to limit it like Steinberg limited Halion as far as modulation is concerned. Modulation is an important thing, so why should it be limited?

On the other hand, since I cannot see any way of different instruments interacting in Falcon, I do agree that at least here multicore distribution would be valid. But perhaps that's what UVI is already doing, not sure. Needs testing. (EDIT: They're not doing it.)

Sampleconstruct wrote:On Mac - e.g. LogicX - HALion does not distribute it's load amongst multiple cores for a single patch. Only when one uses multis (several patches in several slots) can HALion distribute it's CPU load if one has the option activated.

Interesting. So it turns out that Kontakt's per-voice multicore spreading is still the best possible option there is, as it definitely yields the best possible performance... I'm sure there are good reasons why Halion or Falcon don't have this (regarding Falcon, I can see it plausible that IRCAM algorithms, for example, don't really work in a multithreaded scenario - only UVI knows, though).

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:31 am

EvilDragon wrote:
SLiC wrote:also and I cant see myself needing more looping envelopes, LFO's, Step Sequencers, Flexiphraser etc. 'per zone'
You perhaps can't but I can and so can others. Plus, you can add modulation at any level in Falcon, which is not QUITE true in Halion, AFAICT. It's simply more flexible, LESS LIMITED. Of course CPU is going to be a limit with ANY instrument, be it multicore or not, but BEING ABLE to GO DEEPER and not have a FIXED NUMBER OF ELEMENTS is a pro, not a con.

SLiC wrote:IMHO multicore optimisation needs to be designed in to the structure of instruments such as this, even if that imposes limits!
Well this is flawed reasoning. As mentioned, you cannot have great modularity without some tradeoffs. Multicore is one of those tradeoffs. UVI wanted to create an extremely flexible instrument, and they sure did it. They didn't want to limit it like Steinberg limited Halion as far as modulation is concerned. Modulation is an important thing, so why should it be limited?

Sampleconstruct wrote:On Mac - e.g. LogicX - HALion does not distribute it's load amongst multiple cores for a single patch. Only when one uses multis (several patches in several slots) can HALion distribute it's CPU load if one has the option activated.
Interesting. So it turns out that Kontakt's per-voice multicore spreading is still the best possible option there is, as it definitely yields the best possible performance... I'm sure there are good reasons why Halion or Falcon don't have this (regarding Falcon, I can see it plausible that IRCAM algorithms, for example, don't really work in a multithreaded scenario - only UVI knows, though).

On a PC HALion does distribute it's load amongst multiple cores for a single patch so I can make more complex patches with Halion than I can on Falcon irrespective of what is theoretically possible as I am not limited by the processing power of one core.

My reasoning isn't flawed, its factual for me, I am running both Halion 6 and Falcon 1.3 on a PC (i7 4Ghz 64) I can build far more complex patches in Halion with an 8 layer instrument using 1 layer per core. When I try to-do the same (patch) type in Falcon it crackles and spikes- that empirical. not speculation.

Falcon is still once of my most used instruments, I have a ton of expansions for it (just bought DA2 a few days ago) and am not knocking it at all...I knew it was single core when I bought it, I just think single core use is very limiting for something that is 'potentially' so powerful....and personally I would take limitation in the structure for more core optimisation for the reasons stated above.

Out of interest, what can you achieve with 'unlimited' LFO's per vice that you cant do with having multiple voices layered voices with LFO's and envelopes triggering at different times in times? To me, the multiple LFO's on multiple layers all synced together offer almost endless possibilities....I will never run out of options (or probably even scratch the surface of what is possible with either Falcon or Halion).

Perhaps it is because I am mainly a hardware guy and have generally been limited to just a couple of LFO's over the last 20 years of playing... Its been more than enough for me

(OK, maybe 4 in Serum

)

On a different note, I have found the ability to do live sampling more inspiring than unlimited LFO's etc (I keep hitting my drums or adding guitar scrapes to patches that started off as pure VA, it is so quick and easy to do in real time as you patch build)

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:36 am

SLiC wrote:Out of interest, what can you achieve with 'unlimited' LFO's per voice that you cant do with having multiple voices layered voices with LFO's and envelopes triggering at different times in times?

A lot. Just think about it. When you're dealing with per voice LFOs sky's (well, CPU

) really the limit, but the thing is, those LFOs don't have to be per voice. They can be global per patch. Same for envelopes. Tons of stuff can be done when you're not limited with the number of modulators you can have. Modulating LFOs with LFOs? Sure, why not?

Well, to each their own I guess. I like not being limited. Plus my i7-6700K at 4.4 GHz doesn't sweat even with great complexity in Falcon, so...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:47 am

EvilDragon wrote:
SLiC wrote:Out of interest, what can you achieve with 'unlimited' LFO's per voice that you cant do with having multiple voices layered voices with LFO's and envelopes triggering at different times in times?
A lot. Just think about it. When you're dealing with per voice LFOs sky's (well, CPU ) really the limit, but the thing is, those LFOs don't have to be per voice. They can be global per patch. Same for envelopes. Tons of stuff can be done when you're not limited with the number of modulators you can have. Modulating LFOs with LFOs? Sure, why not?

Well, to each their own I guess. I like not being limited. Plus my i7-6700K at 4.4 GHz doesn't sweat even with great complexity in Falcon, so...

I guess we can agree to differ, I think I can achieve the same effect (modulation/movement) with voice layering but it is largely irrelevant as I have never felt the need! This thread is about Falcon not Halion so back to it, I was only commenting that Halion had multicore so maybe Falcon could eventually!

PS- I get clicks audio glitches with Falcon on my i7 PC with just 3 or 4 note chords on some of the patches so my set up is obviously not as well optimised as yours!

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:02 pm

SLiC wrote:PS- I get clicks audio glitches with Falcon on my i7 PC with just 3 or 4 note chords on some of the patches so my set up is obviously not as well optimised as yours!

I did nothing special, really. Just regular W10 updates and that's it. Overclocked the CPU some (regular turbo speed of 6700K is 4 GHz, I upped it to 4.4 without needing to boost memory frequency or voltage. Everything runs cool and fine!). I think the only tweak I did was set the whole system to high performance, disabled some background apps that aren't really necessary, set priority to Background services instead of Programs, and that's it. I guess the rest is handled by RME drivers as far as ASIO is concerned, and Reaper.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:11 pm

RME drivers... that will be it!

I am running in to an X32 desk (hardware guy!) with the 32/32 Behringer AISO driver, I also use AISO4All sometimes to aggregate so I can use my Expert Slepers ES-8 with my modular (all under Bitwig (unlimited modulators

) if I am using the ES-8 or StudioOne if I am using guitars and live singers etc).

I keep thinking about sticking the X-ADAT card in the X32 and getting an RME Raydat....but it seems like a lot of money when I mainly use hardware....I don't have any issues on multicore instruments like Diva or 'normal' VST's, but Falcon did highlight some limitations of my driver perhaps!

liv · Post by **liv** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:52 pm

Composed a new piece. All Falcon.

Please enjoy.

https://soundcloud.com/leap-into-the-void/valediction

liv · Post by **liv** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:10 pm

Can UVI Workstation load third party Falcon presets?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Only if you encode your library with UVI. Otherwise only Falcon can load Falcon presets.

liv · Post by **liv** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:16 pm

Thanks.

newuser2014 · Post by **newuser2014** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:42 pm

So all the stuff I posted to this forum is gone because Dropbox changed the way the public folder works. I appologise for the mess it left.

liv · Post by **liv** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:49 pm

@otristan.
Display bug? The value display pops up behind and cannot be read.
1. Right click for example osc PWM knob and add modulation (envelope).
2. Right click again on same knob and choose "edit modulations".
3. Hover over and/or drag the ratio fader and see the value display pops up behind the window and cannot be read.

liv · Post by **liv** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:58 pm

Seems the multi envelope breakpoint limit is 64. Correct?
With the overall "unlimited" feel working with Falcon it'd be nice if this could be 128, at least.

UVI Falcon - v4 = 2026 released - rumors, ads, praise, kindergarden, auto-sampling and off-topic inside!