New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[fmr]

I got seven years smooth running out of my first Macbook Pro

I still have a 12" PowerBook G4 from 2004 that, apart from a depleted battery, runs as well as on the day of purchase.

I have an old PC with a 486 (or Pentium, don't remember anymore) CPU (right now it is like 20 years old) that still runs, and as well as it was running at day one

Oh, and I also have a Power Mac 7100/80 which again still runs as well as it was running at day one. And it has two sound cards inside, and space for a third one, something I cannot do in any current Mac model

(admitedly, at that time, Apple was building much better machines than nowadays. comparatively)

[Jace-BeOS]

I got seven years smooth running out of my first Macbook Pro

I still have a 12" PowerBook G4 from 2004 that, apart from a depleted battery, runs as well as on the day of purchase.

I have an old PC with a 486 (or Pentium, don't remember anymore) CPU (right now it is like 20 years old) that still runs, and as well as it was running at day one

Oh, and I also have a Power Mac 7100/80 which again still runs as well as it was running at day one. And it has two sound cards inside, and space for a third one, something I cannot do in any current Mac model

(admitedly, at that time, Apple was building much better machines than nowadays. comparatively)

I have a Tandy 1000 TL/3 that still works the same as when it was manufactured... It has 3-channel digital audio and everything

[Jace-BeOS]

...every three year the oldest versions will stop to be supported. The newest versions of the OS will introduce new "features" that will render obsolete the models that are more than five years old.

These Mac models are compatible with macOS Sierra:

MacBook (Late 2009 or newer)
MacBook Pro (Mid 2010 or newer)
MacBook Air (Late 2010 or newer)
Mac mini (Mid 2010 or newer)
iMac (Late 2009 or newer)
Mac Pro (Mid 2010 or newer)

I was being sarcastic (apparently, it didn't pass very well), hence the hyperbole

Anyway, one thing is being "compatible" another is being able to "really" work with it. I have an iMac from 2011, so, I can compare how OS X 10.9 runs in it compared with OS X 10.12 (I have both installed)

Same here, but I'm comparing Snow Leopard with El Capitan. My goodness Snow Leopard is faster. I'm kind of afraid to put Sierra on it, since I'm still on Logic 9.x.

Then there's how Apple supports Sierra on the 2009 MacBook but not the 2009 MacBook Pro. ???

By the way, your "burned as heretics" comment made me laugh. It's not too far off from what i see on Apple news forums, though...

[Jace-BeOS]

During an actual workday, staying focused inside the DAW software environment, chances are that the functionality and user experience are practically 1:1 the same, no matter which platform you use.

I completely disagree here. There are few cross-platform DAWs to compare. Even with cross-platform software, an OS's API, architecture, and overall user experience definitely has an impact on the experience of working within a DAW: audio hardware configuration/drivers, file dialogs, window, mouse, & menu behaviors, settings & content location, etc. all come into the experience. Some DAWs are entirely dependent on the OS API for their behavior and their GUI design is limited or determined by it. Sonar and Logic are two good examples of this, one on each platform, neither currently being cross-platform.

This same argument comes up with 3D modeling and rendering software too (that it's the same experience for users so long as they're focusing on activity within the application). My experience with the cross-platform software has been that the stability of the software package is awful on the Mac. Cubase 4 was a piece of garbage on the Mac. Adobe CS6 is the happy exception (but of course Adobe is unethical to the point of evil these days). Even with this, Mac OS is still my preferred platform because every OS-dependent function in Mac OS suits me in comparison to Windows (which enrages me).

Side note: I hope the cross-platform software i tried has improved since my time with them years ago (i know for a fact a few have not), but those experiences had an impact and i don't use any of that software any more. (Hell, i even abandoned 3D modeling and rendering entirely because of how horrible the software is on average, regardless of who's it is or what platform it's on)

As for the ethics: i think ethics has a valid place in the discussion. However, Apple is far from the worst in this area. They're being extreme hypocrites about environmental issues by selling disposable product, but they're still far from being the worst computer industry company in terms of business ethics. I once had a Sony VAIO laptop. It ended up being replaced with my current MacBook Pro. That MacBook Pro was ½ the cost of the Sony VAIO (the computer department worker at Best Buy was shocked at the price i paid for it).

The MacBook Pro is also much better built physically (the VAIO squeaked, creaked, and rattled depending on where you touched or held it), it worked far better in general usage (no PC trackpad has ever been acceptable to me), and has outlived the VAIO by about 18 times (because the VAIO self-destructed, like so many laptops seem to do, including my older MacBook Pro). The OS was involved in my experience, too: Mac OS was consistent. Windows (and i went through two different versions with this machine) was a PITMFA. But the OS in the VAIO was Microsoft's fault, not Sony's... except for all of Sony's proprietary garbage and junk drivers installed on it, which was indeed a huge Sony problem in specific. I have plenty of hate for decades of Microsoft business practices and OS design choices, but Sony (and many OEMs) put so much garbage on their PCs that don't need to be there. Half of it seems to be designed to market their product to the person who has already bought the damn computer from them.

Side note 2: I was starting to become a PC-to-Mac convert at that time. I had an older MacBook Pro that i was starting to use more and more, while my "workhorse" PC was being used less and less (SO. MANY. REASONS). Picking the MacBook Pro as my "consolation" refund item for the VAIO lemon seemed more sensible to me than choosing another nightmare PC laptop. The iPhone i had been using a couple years by then was impressing the hell out of me. Apple of today is NOT having the same effect on me, but the PC world is still worse, IMO.

But yeah, Sony's product was junk. The ethics of selling that laptop to people at that cost? Zero! I think Sony got out of the computer business shortly after that. There are a bunch of other PC laptops out there, as of at least last year, that i feel the exact same about (when helping my companion shop for her next laptop, i was appalled at the flimsy junk being offered by PC manufacturers; if not for a lack of MS Access on the Mac, i would've advocated for a 15" MacBook).

[Jace-BeOS]

She and her partner use their computers to an abusive extent (tons of open programs and literally hundreds of browser tabs at one time), so the wasted resources aren't inconsequential. I keep trying to teach them moderation...

[...]
Bottom line:
It's 2017, users should not have to do anything to manage resources on a computer. That's the job of the OS. If a user has to manage resources, it means the OS is not capable of doing it's job.

I am absolutely in agreement with this bottom line. I'm just not sure we're there yet with the technology, even in MacOS. Especially with all the bloat added to it after Snow Leopard. But then, I'm not using the Mac Apple released with El Capitan already pre-installed...

My favorite example of a system than managed CPU cycles (and RAM?) well was BeOS. No matter what you did, the system never blocked the user from doing the next thing. The system kernel's timing was so granular that you'd see the mouse pointer slow down visibly under extreme loads, rather than blocking the user from doing something (i.e.: it didn't ignore the user, as if the system had better things to do than to pay attention to the user, which is what i hate most about Windows).

[Jace-BeOS]

This claim was very specifically disproven by people posting on forums about their Apple-"repaired" machines suffering the same failure months later.

To actually disprove this, 2 people complaining of a forum is not enough. You have to provide some real world data that show repeat failures on a significant number of machines, and prove that the root cause of the repeat failure is identical with the original issue.
If you have this kind of data, don't hesitate to post a link.

Example: if someone gets a Mac repaired, and then f*s it up by using temperature/fan control apps, that's not a repeat failure. Or: if a user has the Nvidia issue and the symptom is a dark display, gets it repaired, and 2 years later the display itself fails, or a connector to the display fails, or the display stays dark because the power supply fails, that's also not a repeat issue, even though the symptoms look similar.

I hear you. This is data that may simply just not exist to end users who wish to do an investigation. If you have an idea of how to get this data, I'd be interested, but it's not really my responsibility to do serious investigations of Apple's business practices and no lawyer or consumer agency will find this worth their time and resources. As a result, i do have to go by people complaining on forums. I try to maintain reasonable skepticism and critical thinking while doing so.

[Jace-BeOS]

I generally don't use any third-party protection software either. Safe browsing and awareness are my tools. Occasionally I run SBSAD, but rarely (haven't in two years), and it usually only finds suspicious cookies. Adblock is probably the more important tool here anyway, since the internet and browsing are the most common vectors.

I've never been subjected to malware at home. The only time I saw it in labs of computers at work was when Windows XP's RPC was compromised. Service patch fixed it while keeping the network disconnected.

I

This is a false sense of security. Adblock is definitely important but it does not always block against malwertizing nor does it block against things like browser exploits and cross site scripting attacks.

Saying that I'm not visiting dubious sites or the like has nothing to do with keeping you secure. There's been innumerable cases where some of the most popular and completely legit sites have been compromised and served some really nasty malware. And as was shown by the recent WannaCry outbreak all it took was to be connected to the internet with the right ports open.

I think many people mix up not being infected and not knowing about being infected. I you do not have a good endpoint protection and you do not constantly scan your computer with several malware protection tools, then you have no way of knowing if you are infected or not. I can't count the cases where I have had to clean computer full of malware even though they were running (a crappy) antivirus. These are not the 1990's anymore when viruses were made mostly to annoy users. These days malware is made to be as stealthy as it can be without taxing any system resources.

A best of class endpoint protection is an absolute must however you look at it. And indeed, if possible run two complimentary ones (but only those that have meant to be run side by side with other products, or you'll get into big trouble). There's several products like Sophos InterceptX or Malwarebytes that have meant to be run side by side with your regular endpoint protection.

I spent over an hour writing a well thought out response to this and the f**king browser reloaded the page because i wasn't writing it in an external text editor. Well, shame on me.

Your critiques are noted and are fair, but I still don't see how my own personal use case justifies spending the time, the money, the CPU, RAM, and effort funding a product category that does not protect us from things it doesn't know about. I had so much more to say and ask, but, whatever. What a waste of time.

EDIT: If anything, what this does is just reinforce for me how utterly SHITTY our computing architecture is, including the way we have to constantly work around its very design to protect ourselves from bullshit.

[Jace-BeOS]

Windows 7 is an outdated OS. Remaining on an outdated OS, regardless of outdated Windows or macOS, is always a security risk.

Windows 10 is out of date too?
http://www.darkreading.com/endpoint/wan ... id/1329049

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I still have a 12" PowerBook G4 from 2004 that, apart from a depleted battery, runs as well as on the day of purchase.

I have an old PC with a 486 (or Pentium, don't remember anymore) CPU (right now it is like 20 years old) that still runs, and as well as it was running at day one

I have a Tandy 1000 TL/3 that still works the same as when it was manufactured... It has 3-channel digital audio and everything

This wasn't meant to start a 'biggest dick' contest (Who has, not who is )

No! I was speaking to the overstated myth of planned obsolescence. Y'see, at the point the laptop died, it was compatible with all the, then, current software that I worked with.

While it is true that Logic X had just been released, which would have necessitated an os upgrade not compatible with my computer, i would never have been that early an adopter for that to have been a problem.

So, my 7-year-old computer was not only working as well as the day I got it, but it was being supported by all the software vendors that I had bought from. The same can not be said of all of your relics

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Also stikl use a 7-year-old iPod touch, and 5-year-old iPad, on the daily

[stratology]

Here's one for the actual Mac users in the thread. Fascinating look behind the curtain. (PC guys - don't bother with this, you won't be able to relate to anything in this video..)

[fmr]

Here's one for the actual Mac users in the thread. Fascinating look behind the curtain. (PC guys - don't bother with this, you won't be able to relate to anything in this video..)

iPhone???? I thought computers were the subject here You seem a little lost - I'm a Mac guy too (probably longer than you) and I don't relate with this either. Two hipsters talking about their trendy toys.

Actually, IMO this is what have been burying the Macintosh (or at least have been contributing to its burial).

[iTzPrime]

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

I always find it interesting that PC people try to build a pc that matches it's specs, but don't look outside of the specworld. When i build a PC that is 60cm high and 60 cm high, how does that compare to a all-in-one PC with a display that is really good for colorgrading.

And on the other side you have the apple fans that deny every problem that exists with mac.

Everything has it's pros and cons and it depends on your priorities what you get. Don't want to fiddle around with anything - get a mac. Want to fiddle around with something - get a Windows. Just depends on the person.

To the iMac Pro. Most of the sales will go to companies with support contracts and they will be happy. A mac that will run adobe programs, programming music production and video editing really smooth and has a high resale value in 5 years, is quite important for a lot of tech companies I know. And those that don't find it important don't have to buy it.

About the cooling problems. Had a windows laptop -> thermal throttle. had a self-build windows pc -> thermal throttle. Never had the problem with my macbook. But that is just my experience.

[chk071]

I always find it interesting that PC people try to build a pc that matches it's specs, but don't look outside of the specworld. When i build a PC that is 60cm high and 60 cm high, how does that compare to a all-in-one PC with a display that is really good for colorgrading.

The question is why you assume that people don't compare, or don't want to compare, to a similarly spec'd PC with a similarly spec'd display. Of course there are PC displays of similar quality out there.

[fmr]

About the cooling problems. Had a windows laptop -> thermal throttle. had a self-build windows pc -> thermal throttle. Never had the problem with my macbook. But that is just my experience.

Care to share more about you and your experience? What was the windows laptop and what problens did you experience? Who build your PC (or who advised you in building your PC) and what kind of problems did you experience? What kind of Macbook do you have, for how long, and, more important, what exactly is it that you do?