Soft studio's why and which? P5, R, and FL

[LoRez]

I voted P5 not because I think it is the best, but because that IS the only option for me. It is the only one I own and I use it just because I own it.

IMHO, FL is better than P5, but because I have Sonar and use that as the main workstation with P5 as an add-on, I have no reason to go out and spend money on FL.

Fl is better than P5 as SOME things. P5 is better than FL at others. For me, it's the stuff that P5 is better at that matters, but everyone's experience can be different of course.

[7XL]

I agree with Lorez on this one.

Although some of you might get along fine with recording 1 or 2 tracks of audio. Or using step sequencers for a majority of your music, to say that Fruity Studio is a better program than Sonar, Project and Kinetic combined pushes the limits of reality to the extreme.

I really don't like Logic, but it's a great program, just not for me.

I used to use Nuendo, but the second incarnation left a bad taste in my mouth (3 pages of known bugs on release is inexcusable in my eyes), but it's a great program for those that like it.

The same goes for Cubase, D.P. Pyramix, Pro Tools and any others that I failed to mention. What may work for you may not work for others, the same goes with features, there may be some that you never need with your work habits and style, but that doesn't make your choice any better or any worse than that of others.

For the record, I have a license for Fruity, Reason, Project 5, Kinetic and Sonar. They all have their place for what I need them for. Would I ever use Fruity to record a 16 channel live drum tracking session? Can it even do that? I don't think so, but I do it in Sonar at least once every week. Would I use Project 5 to program some "beatz" for some person doing a rap track? Probably not, but I'll use Fruity or Kinetic to get it done, and done well. Techno track, Reason, Project 5 and Kinetic all rewired into Sonar.

My point is that all of these things work for different people and/or different situations. And just because it doesn't work for you doesn't means that it sucks or is an inferior product, all it means us just that, it doesn't work for you.

[neverwhere2012]

it's a subject that's long since been beaten to death the world and music forums over... but i can never resist throwing in my 2 cents. i got started out on fruity loops back in the 2-2.5 days, enjoyed it immensely and made some of the worst electronic music ever heard in it. got my first synth and drum machine, moved on to a "borrowed" copy of cubase VST, and made some significantly more polished tunes in that. went to school, got quite good with pro tools, and thought that was the endall solution to everything.... now?

sold my digi001 last week, been using Logic Pro since winter. I have reason, used to run it in rewire, but now i only open it for "sketching" ideas out. i've heard great things about cubase, i have friends using sonar 3: PE that rave about it, but for me, Logic is the cat's pajamas. between the ES2, ES1, and EXS24mkII, the only thing i crave is a more powerful mac. course, i still prefer hardware, just waiting on the next dose of financial aid to acquire enough midi i/o to hook up all my synths. 7XL is right, though, everything appeals differently to different people. and besides, looking back on where my rig and skills have come since my FL days, i should be happy just to have reason to toy around with... hell, i should be happy to have a decent computer to run any software on at all.

but i digress. at the end of the day, i don't think i could function without Logic. i don't even think i could bear to get out of bed heh.

[MiBa]

... and MIKE OLDFIELD uses FLS

[BONES]

The rules could be bent in order to accommodate revolutionary products that don't entirely play by the rules...

I would be very interested to know in what way you see Reason as revolutionary, especially as it came out a couple of years after Fruity and more than a year after ORION's first release.

[headquest]

I would be very interested to know in what way you see Reason as revolutionary, especially as it came out a couple of years after Fruity and more than a year after ORION's first release.

In the context of my message above, I was refering to the ReWire protocol, which Propellorheads specifically developed so that Reason could be integrated alongside other programs.

The ReWire protocol has subsequently been integrated into virtually every major music software programme - more so than any specific plug-in format (VST / AU / RTAS / DX / etc).

This is because of Reason's phenomonal worldwide success among professional as well as amateur musicians. Quite rightly, programme developers from all the major companies have recognised and responded to Reason's deserved success.

Although this was my specific point above, I could also mention the fact that Reason emulated the studio environment more fully and successfully than any previous programme. In particular, the fact that you can rotate devices and route them any which way you choose is truly innovative and revolutionary. You will find many on this site who rave about energyXT (and I think it's great) but the fact is that the routing flexibility of a modular environment was perfected by Reason some years ago.

And then there's the ReCycle programme which has changed then way many loop-based musicians work worldwide. The REX format has been adopted by many of the important players.

Need I go on? I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.

Regarding the other programmes you mention, I think FL Studio is great (although I don't personally use it) but surely it's very different to Reason? And as for predating Reason by two years - back then FruityLoops was simply a drum-pattern tool. In case you didn't know, Fruity Loops has only developed into the fully featured software it now is since the success of Reason.

And as for Orion, I'm really not sure about the impact that programme has made on the music profession worldwide - but perhaps you can tell me?

[BONES]

And as for Orion, I'm really not sure about the impact that programme has made on the music profession worldwide - but perhaps you can tell me?

And that really says it all. Reason's success is completely and utterly based on its marketing and not in any way on any advantage it may have. It is more stable than other applications purly because it is a closed system and doesn't have to deal with plugins coded by a thousand other developers. ReWire only exists because propellerheads want to keep everything closed so it works for them and causes everyone else all manner of nightmare trying to integrate it into their host environment.
I tried the version 1 demo when it came out and I saw/heard nothing that made me think that it was better than ORION version 1.8 or 1.9 in any respect. It was certainly no where near as fully-featured. At the same time Fruityloops was at about v2.7 and, whilst still without VSTi support, it boasted a number of usable, decent sounding built-in synths and was more than a year beyond its humble drum machine roots. Since then I've enjoyed countless dozens of regular, mostly free updates that have extended ORION's capabilities by several orders of magnitude. In the same time Reason users have had a couple of lame updates that amount to point releases in Fruity or ORION.
Anyway, most people I know wanted ReWire for ReBirth more than Reason.
As for ReCycle, I was using WaveSurgeon before I'd ever heard fo ReCycle. Again, it was the marketing budgets that won the day.

I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.

Maybe its because we are much better informed than the Liam Twatfaces of the world and are aware that there are far better alternatives than closed, proprietary systems with stupid interfaces and average filters. Alternatives that offer complete solutions of the highest quality rather than hobbled toys that can barely stand alone, sending you into a downward spiral of buying more and more software to finish the job.

[headquest]

Reason's success is completely and utterly based on its marketing and not in any way on any advantage it may have. ...

In the same time Reason users have had a couple of lame updates that amount to point releases in Fruity or ORION.
Anyway, most people I know wanted ReWire for ReBirth more than Reason.
As for ReCycle, I was using WaveSurgeon before I'd ever heard fo ReCycle. Again, it was the marketing budgets that won the day.
Maybe its because we are much better informed than the Liam Twatfaces of the world and are aware that there are far better alternatives than closed, proprietary systems with stupid interfaces and average filters. Alternatives that offer complete solutions of the highest quality rather than hobbled toys that can barely stand alone, sending you into a downward spiral of buying more and more software to finish the job.

Well hey - I think your response perfectly illustrates my point about people on this forum having a distasteful contempt for Reason...

To suggest that Reason users like me simply bought it because we're not "much better informed like you are is simply arrogant and unnecessarily rude to others. How inadequate!

As for Reason's success being purely down to marketing, I think you are failing to credit other people with any inteligence at all. Reason users aren't all gullible sheep, whatever you happen to think of us.

For my part I bought Reason (at version 2 - and the free upgrade to 2.5 WAS a significant and very welcome improvement when it came) - because I researched independant professional opinion and read reviews.

For example, Computer Music awarded the following:

Orion 5.1 7/10 (CM70)
Reason 2.5 10/10 (CM61)

Or how about Sound on Sound :

"It is impossible not to make a direct comparison between Orion Platinum and Propellerhead's Reason. Labelling Orion Platinum as 'Reason on a budget' is very tempting and is probably not that far from the mark. This should not, however, be seen as a criticism. Reason is an excellent music production environment and, in Orion Platinum, Synapse Audio have struck an interesting balance, producing an application that is not that far removed from Reason in function, but has a considerably lower price.

If money was not an issue, yes, I'd go with Reason: in its particular niche, it is the industry standard and, with an ever-increasing range of Refills available, it is capable of working in a diverse range of musical styles well outside the dance genres for which it has become so popular." (Sound on Sound, July 2003)

So there we have it.

You didn't answer my question about what Orion has contributed to professional musicians worldwide, nor have you managed to make an arguement about my original point that Reason/ReWire/REX/etc is a revolutionary software.

At the end of the day I'm glad for you that you like Orion. If it does what you want then I'm pleased for you.

But that does not give you the right or an excuse for being rude to others.

[Kriminal]

Going by ultra biased mag reviews is aking for trouble...I wonder who pays for them...oh yes, the advertisers

[headquest]

Going by ultra biased mag reviews is aking for trouble...I wonder who pays for them...oh yes, the advertisers

I've seen several full-page colour adverts for Orion Platinum in Computer Music. I don't recall seeing any for Reason (though I imagine there must have been some, surely?)

So I think it's quite dodgy to imply that the props simply "bought" their success.

[Kriminal]

Going by ultra biased mag reviews is aking for trouble...I wonder who pays for them...oh yes, the advertisers

I've seen several full-page colour adverts for Orion Platinum in Computer Music. I don't recall seeing any for Reason (though I imagine there must have been some, surely?)

So I think it's quite dodgy to imply that the props simply "bought" their success.

I doubt that very much. AFAIK there was one on the back page about 2 years ago, and one in DMM recently, 1 page tho. Reason is in there all the time. The tutorials are 90% FL and Reason too.

[headquest]

I doubt that very much. AFAIK there was one on the back page about 2 years ago, and one in DMM recently, 1 page tho. Reason is in there all the time. The tutorials are 90% FL and Reason too.

Tutorials in CM etc are based on reader-demand as shown by the surveys they carry out from time to time. I agree they are unbalanced, though CM is better than others in this respect. But its down to popularity.

As I said though, both advertise, and so I don;t think there is a real basis for saying any one buys their positive review (probably a slanderous accusation for you to make?!)

[Kriminal]

Well, the mags always deny that they feature products/give favourable reviews becuase those companies pump a lot of money into the ads, but they would do

Anyway, way off topic probably, so carry on

[Sicklecell666]

Need I go on? I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.

Maybe cause the site's called KvR-vst.com, not KvR-ReWire..

I own a Reason license & I fully acknowledge it's beauty & genius, but this little corner of the web revolves around VST, not Rewire..which we end up having many discussion about despite that simple fact..

But given it's nature assuming it's inclusion here on default is out of context.

As far as Orion goes?

heh..

[Sicklecell666]

I doubt that very much. AFAIK there was one on the back page about 2 years ago, and one in DMM recently, 1 page tho. Reason is in there all the time. The tutorials are 90% FL and Reason too.

I've seen ONE Orion tutorial in the last 6 months..There's several Reason tutorials in every music magazine every month..