Zappa - what a tight music arranger

[jancivil]

ANYWAY rather than give too much space to these children... talk about arrangements. Frank's vocal arranging was tops.

This canon, in this song.



I have listened to a number of rehearsal takes, and from that perspective I think he created that right there in the room with the musicians, rather than write something.

also see: Doreen from You Are What You Is and the unreleased Crush All Boxes. I like the version on the latter better at this time, but I don't think that track from that album is isolated on the youtube currently.

this thing



'Johnny Guitar Watson throws the f**k down on this track'

[jancivil]

^rehearsal tapes

This thing is outstanding in every way
the original on Thing-Fish isn't arranged for the band like this. This is very grandiose.



originally it did this

[Numanoid]

I don't think anyone really pursues "complexity for its own sake".

I find that a hopelessly ignorant thing to say. It's like an accusation of a lack of integrity, and you who do this have no clue what a person who made something that you feel is too complex is thinking. It implies that making simple honest emotional music is a superior ethos to something with more action musically. It's a bullshit posture.

Except the guitar solos I find most of Zappas music easy listening.

The arrangements maybe be complex, but the end results overall is a rather mainstream rock sound.

[Rappo Clappo]

The mainstream rock sound came with Overnite Sensation. When Frank went commercial. After which he tried to 'disassociate' himself from the hippie scene. Read: drugs/child abuse scene.

It didn't really work out though. By the time Frank cut his hair yuppee style no one listened to Zappa anymore.

[williedscarface]

Don't you so-called musicians have anything better to do?

[t3toooo]

Talking about mainstream.
This's one of my favorite,great arrangement too.

[jancivil]

for those interested in some music rather than bullshit

[Numanoid]

In that case bring forth rEgyptian Strut

This is a delicious arrangement of horns, marimbas and bass.

Seldom has Zappa pushed the bass to the front as a lead line like this track, quite a unique one in his repertoire.

[ghettosynth]

I don't think anyone really pursues "complexity for its own sake".

I find that a hopelessly ignorant thing to say. It's like an accusation of a lack of integrity, and you who do this have no clue what a person who made something that you feel is too complex is thinking. It implies that making simple honest emotional music is a superior ethos to something with more action musically. It's a bullshit posture.

Except the guitar solos I find most of Zappas music easy listening.

The arrangements maybe be complex, but the end results overall is a rather mainstream rock sound.

Perhaps, just not a good one.

[jancivil]

[Numanoid]

ANYWAY rather than give too much space to these children...

You mean there is too much focus on Dweezil or Moon Unit ?

[Harry_HH]

Not most typical use of horns. The chords sound very "loose" because of the color/ instrumentation. Sus2 may be the most common "Zappa chord", if there are any (I think Ruth Underwood underlined that). He used also polychords, maybe Stravinsky influence.

[jancivil]

Ok, complexity.
The most complex thing about FZ's music is the rhythm, which many are not equipped to deal with.
Mo's Vacation is an example.

But this thing reveals where the interest actually lies: speech, conversational speech as a source for rhythm.
FZ said to Chad Wackerman (and in all likelihood to others) '4/4 is the most unnatural thing in the world'. Baffled, CW questioned that. "Well, do you talk in 4/4?"



Here's Vai doubling the vocal, so he transcribed it. If you examined conversational speech for its rhythm, it's very irregular and not restricted by meter. I used to listen to Chinese people on the bus in SF, since I had absolutely no idea of what was being said, it was abstract. And interesting, rhythmically. The only times I'd heard Zappa talk about it was, he thought Johnny Guitar Watson's solos were speech-inflected. I came from the same kind of sources, blues guitar and snare drum, 'Schottische' rudimentary drumming so Zappa made sense to me on several levels.

[ghettosynth]

FZ said to Chad Wackerman (and in all likelihood to others) '4/4 is the most unnatural thing in the world'. Baffled, CW questioned that. "Well, do you talk in 4/4?"

Of course, he was wrong. I mean it all sounds good when you're trying to justify something based on whatever prejudices that you might have, but that doesn't make Frank a scientist. In fact, that's a great example of Dunning Kruger, where ignorant Frank was overly confident based on his caveman understanding of music cognition. It comes across like those making arguments regarding gender and sex as being reducible to "simple biology." Well, yes, the biology (music cognition) in question IS relatively simple, but not AS simple as presented. If it were actually understood, one wouldn't make such claims in the first place.

There is something to a relationship between speech and music rhythm that is language dependent, however, there are aspects to the perception of meter relating to how we synchronize that are, within the brain, unique to music, so trying to claim that 4/4 is unnatural is simply self serving speculation based on ignorance. In fact, it can be reasonably argued that time signatures based on an even division of time, like 4/4, are the most natural.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but it's all there in the music cognition literature, Temperley has a survey and a couple of books on the topic. Of course, a lot of this research happened after Frank's death, but that doesn't forgive a false claim based on ignorance, especially given the context here.

Carry on children.

[jancivil]