Hi,
I have ST 2 LE and I was wondering how you pan individual drum sounds (like toms, hi-hat, crash etc). Most kits seem to have all instruments dead center. I noticed you can change some parameters of each drum instrument like filtering and volume, but where's the panning? Am I just missing something, or is there just no way to adjust per-instrument (or per-key) panning?
Thanks,
BitFlipper
Panning drumkits in SampleTank 2 LE
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- KVRist
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
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- KVRist
- 56 posts since 22 Mar, 2002
I have the same question about individual sample volume. I find the volume on the SR I-Map ride cymbals tobe too low in relation to the rest of the kit, but I don't see any per-key controls in ST.
Guess I'll have to split MIDI notes to tracks, record as audio, and mix and pan from there...
Guess I'll have to split MIDI notes to tracks, record as audio, and mix and pan from there...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
Magpel wrote:
Unfortunately there still doesn't seem to be a way to adjust individual pan, there's just a global pan. This will make most of the kits almost worthless to me as most seem to panned dead center. How is one supposed to pan the kit properly? What am I missing? In theory I could use the multiple outs of ST2 LE for individual drum instruments and pan each stereo output pair that way, but it's cumbersome (multiple host MIDI/Audio tracks just for the kit) and I'll very quickly run into the one-instance ST2 LE limitation if I have to use all the slots for drums, each with a different panning...
Any ideas here? I have a sinking feeling that the answer is going to be to upgrade to ST2 L/XL...
BitFlipper
It seems you can adjust individual key sample volume. Just click on the ZONE button to turn it on. The keyboard will become color coded. Then click on each key you want to adjust, and change the LEVEL knob in the SYNTH-SAMPLER section.I have the same question about individual sample volume. I find the volume on the SR I-Map ride cymbals tobe too low in relation to the rest of the kit, but I don't see any per-key controls in ST.
Unfortunately there still doesn't seem to be a way to adjust individual pan, there's just a global pan. This will make most of the kits almost worthless to me as most seem to panned dead center. How is one supposed to pan the kit properly? What am I missing? In theory I could use the multiple outs of ST2 LE for individual drum instruments and pan each stereo output pair that way, but it's cumbersome (multiple host MIDI/Audio tracks just for the kit) and I'll very quickly run into the one-instance ST2 LE limitation if I have to use all the slots for drums, each with a different panning...
Any ideas here? I have a sinking feeling that the answer is going to be to upgrade to ST2 L/XL...
BitFlipper
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
If your using Live 4.0 you can load the group kits (snares, BDs, cymbals) into separate midi channels, and pan away... I have Eclectic drums, and they have separate groups of the kit samples broken down into snares, BDs, toms, etc. in addition to the whole kits, which can be loaded into ST2 LE channels, so you have snares in channel 1, BDs in channel 2 etc. But that may only apply to the separate drum capsules... I haven't checked the drum kits that came with the bundle...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
DHR53 wrote:
I checked out the specs and screenshots from SampleTank 2 XL, but from what I can piece together from that it doesn't look like ST 2 XL even has the capability to adjust per-sample panning. I still have the feeling I'm missing something though.
BitFlipper
Well I have Sonar 3 and I can do the same thing, but that was exactly what I was trying to avoid. ST2 LE has a one-instance limitation, and using up the 8 ST2 LE stereo outs for individual drum instruments just is not an option. If I do that I can't use any non-drum sounds from ST2 LE. I don't see why I can set the per-sample cutoff frequency, resonance, volume, pitch, etc in a kit but not pan. If the kit was already panned in some way it would not be a big problem but as I said some kits (most?) seem to have everything panned center.If your using Live 4.0 you can load the group kits (snares, BDs, cymbals) into separate midi channels, and pan away...
I checked out the specs and screenshots from SampleTank 2 XL, but from what I can piece together from that it doesn't look like ST 2 XL even has the capability to adjust per-sample panning. I still have the feeling I'm missing something though.
BitFlipper
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Most of the kits I've tried, the individual sounds are already panned in the field... Obviously that doesn't solve your problem... but it's not really a sampler, more a sample player... There are some great sounds in Sampletank, but the instrument lacks a lot of features that most Samplers have... It's more a rompler with good FX...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
Maybe I need to listen to the kits again. I'm not in front of my music computer right now. I do remember a few kits that were all center panned, maybe it was not that many kits.
It is kinda weird to have all the other per-sample parameters like filter cutoff, filter resonance, bend wheel range, etc, but not a pan setting. I would put the pan setting right after the level setting in importance (ok, maybe after the pitch setting).
The kits in ST2 LE do sound really good, I must say. I'll see how much of a problem it really is, the panning. I do have DR-008 as a backup.
BitFlipper
It is kinda weird to have all the other per-sample parameters like filter cutoff, filter resonance, bend wheel range, etc, but not a pan setting. I would put the pan setting right after the level setting in importance (ok, maybe after the pitch setting).
The kits in ST2 LE do sound really good, I must say. I'll see how much of a problem it really is, the panning. I do have DR-008 as a backup.
BitFlipper
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Most of the drums on say Acoustic Drums library are stereo samples and the panning is the natural panning of the kit (ie. hat off center just a bit, toms naturally panning as they are hit across the range of the overheads etc).
But, to do your own custom panning it is one of the few things that is inconvenient in ST2. You can of course split it into a separate instrument part and pan it that way.
Maybe this is something that will change in a future update. I will at least request it. I think it would be good for drums and ST2 is such a great sounding drum kit player.
But, to do your own custom panning it is one of the few things that is inconvenient in ST2. You can of course split it into a separate instrument part and pan it that way.
Maybe this is something that will change in a future update. I will at least request it. I think it would be good for drums and ST2 is such a great sounding drum kit player.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
So the panning of each drum instrument is basically determined solely by if it is a stereo sample and if so, how it was panned at the time?
From my testing it seems that the acoustic kits are stereo but the efx kits and electronic drums are strictly mono only.
BTW, I found some samples that have clicks on them. For example the conga on E3 in the Efx/A Hip It and also Efx/Hip Hopkins kits have a click at the end. Not a big problem really as I haven't seen it too much though.
BitFlipper
From my testing it seems that the acoustic kits are stereo but the efx kits and electronic drums are strictly mono only.
BTW, I found some samples that have clicks on them. For example the conga on E3 in the Efx/A Hip It and also Efx/Hip Hopkins kits have a click at the end. Not a big problem really as I haven't seen it too much though.
BitFlipper
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Oh, I'll put a version of it without the conga click at the end (sometimes samplers add a click sound if the sound isn't faded to a zero... that's an old problem.... actually if you want that conga it is repeated without the click elsewhere on the disc).
Yeah, the electronic stuff especially isn't stereo miked.
So you have to play around to get exact panning and hopefully there will be future updates that address this to make it as convenient as practically everything else is in ST2.
Yeah, the electronic stuff especially isn't stereo miked.
So you have to play around to get exact panning and hopefully there will be future updates that address this to make it as convenient as practically everything else is in ST2.
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
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- KVRist
- 202 posts since 29 Apr, 2003
BitFlipper,
What you could do is to record your drums first in Midi. When the song is finished, seperate all the pots and pans in a different midi track.
In Sonar's pianoview it's pretty easy to do this.
Then you mix-down the tracks one by one to audio tracks.
In your audio tracks you can finally pan everything you want.
Hope this helps.
What you could do is to record your drums first in Midi. When the song is finished, seperate all the pots and pans in a different midi track.
In Sonar's pianoview it's pretty easy to do this.
Then you mix-down the tracks one by one to audio tracks.
In your audio tracks you can finally pan everything you want.
Hope this helps.
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- KVRAF
- 2097 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from Nearish Detroit, MI
Maybe this will be a feature of StudioPhonik? It seems like the ability to place any instrument where you want it in the "room" would be one reason why folks would pick that up when it's released. (That and maybe audio inputs, so you can process other instruments with the same effects as the SP instruments).Squids wrote:Maybe this is something that will change in a future update. I will at least request it. I think it would be good for drums and ST2 is such a great sounding drum kit player.
GLHF! (Gandalf Lives, Hobbits Forever!)
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Seems like they weren't focusing on drums, but could easily be remedied... Just a pan control for the individual samples, and settings remembered for the volume per hit would do it. ...Strange, does XL have that capability?? I checked the Ecelctic drum capsule, and they are all pretty much center panned...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from San Francisco, CA
I could be wrong, but from the descriptions and screenshots of ST2 XL it looks like it can't do individual sample pan either. That might have been enough to make me upgrade from ST2 LE to ST2 XL, but not if it can't do it either.
Still it's weird as there are already at least 11 per-sample adjustments on ST2 LE. Having pan in there would have made perfect sense. It's not useful for just drums either, I mean how do you pan a piano accross the keyboard, unless the piano is already sampled in stereo?
But it's true, I mean ST 2 is not really a drum machine. Some other basic shorcommings I can think of is that there is no choke groups. So I guess that is to be expected, but still - no panning?
Anyway, the sounds in ST2 LE are very good and I guess if I really need to pan a kit in ST2 LE I might just end up "sampling" the drumkit into audio tracks and saving them as wav files, then build a drumkit in DR-008. But as Squids said, the acoustic sets are stereo sampled, so that is good.
BitFlipper
Still it's weird as there are already at least 11 per-sample adjustments on ST2 LE. Having pan in there would have made perfect sense. It's not useful for just drums either, I mean how do you pan a piano accross the keyboard, unless the piano is already sampled in stereo?
But it's true, I mean ST 2 is not really a drum machine. Some other basic shorcommings I can think of is that there is no choke groups. So I guess that is to be expected, but still - no panning?
Anyway, the sounds in ST2 LE are very good and I guess if I really need to pan a kit in ST2 LE I might just end up "sampling" the drumkit into audio tracks and saving them as wav files, then build a drumkit in DR-008. But as Squids said, the acoustic sets are stereo sampled, so that is good.
BitFlipper