Soft studio's why and which? P5, R, and FL

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic

Soft studio user / supporter or no need for them?

Reason is THE soft studio, full stop.
35
12%
Project 5 is currently the best option for me.
23
8%
FL studio has it all brother! My choice.
89
32%
FL studio has it all brother! My choice.
89
32%
I use another soft studio, NOT one of those three.
24
9%
I dont use soft studio's at all...no need.
21
7%
 
Total votes: 281

RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

i'm curious if anyone has actually addressed the real issue at hand in these arguments. 2 very important questions. can [software x] load 3rd party plugins? can [software x] sequence record/sequence audio without loading it into some form of sampler/loop player instrument?

to my knowledge, fruity loops in it's current incarnation can do both of these things, which sets it apart and above softsynth "studios" like reason. it has gotten to a point where it is more or less a DAW.

in fact, when it really comes down to it, if a "softstudio" can load 3rd party plugins, it isn't fair to compare reason to it. reason sold based on the quality of sounds and features it contains within it. if you really look at it, the program is no more than a giant softsynth workstation. it's a synth module, it's an instrument, not a studio. i would view reason more in from the perspective of comparing it to other workstation synthesizers. you could buy a triton, a motif, a fantom, or reason. that's all there really is to it. the sequencer built into the program is adequate, nothing fancy, definately not spectacular by any stretch of the imagination. granted, there's people pushing the limits of the program using it for all their needs, but there's people with fully expanded triton/motif keyboards that are doing the same thing. importing vocal tracks into the sampler, constructing and mixing the whole song within the "box".

i think the argument, though, as to whether reason is the best thing out there or not is a little ridiculous. granted, propellerheads promote it as being all you'll ever need because technically you can get away with doing everything within reason. not to mention they love to publish interviews with and stories about reason users who have sworn off all of their thousands of dollars of real analog gear and minimoogs and prophet 5's and obie whatevers because reason is absolutely the cat's ass. but it's all hype, and at the end of the day, the softsynth studio is simply a softsynth, no more no less.

blah... i've babbled far too long on this... probably reiterated points made a thousand times over anyway. i'll shut up now. :D

Post

now granted, it depends on what type of music you make... but I swear some of ya'll have absolutely no imagination whatsoever. If you had reason, and had nothing else... but was forced to work with it and learn it's ins and outs to the n'th degree... trust me, you can create some wonderful music with it regardless of whether it's a closed environment. All of these soft studios are tools which are well beyond what people were forced to use many moons ago...

it just takes a little imagination! jeeezzz... it's like being lost in a forest searching for bottled water. Hell, use your hands or make something and dip it in the damn stream... get creative!
ModuLR / Radio

Post

sickle666 wrote:
headquest wrote: Need I go on? I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.
Maybe cause the site's called KvR-vst.com, not KvR-ReWire.. :roll: ..
Fair point, but don;t underestimate ReWire...

The whole point of ReWire is that it allows you to apply your VST effects to your Reason tracks (as insert/send and master out...)

OK, so you can produce complete songs in Reason in standalone/closed format mode, but for goodness sakes - this isn't the limits of the programme. If it were, I would certainly agree with all the criticisms levelled at it!

But most Reason users I know (amateur and pro musicians) use the programme in ReWire mode so that they can use VST/AU/etc effects and mastering.

ReWire can in effect turn any music software into a VST "host" in this way. It basically acts like a wrapper.

And this is precisely why KVR-VST should be interested in Reason and its myriad of users worldwide - because most of us are keen to use VST plugins with our favourite software!

(In my case I use Reason alongside Tracktion, Audition and Live, all of which are excellent programmes, and all of which integrate using ReWire. I use free and paid-for VST effects and VSTi synths as well. Reason is not anti-VST, just one part of the whole package.)

Post

Need I go on? I do not understand people's refusal on this forum to give Propellorheads the credit that everyone else in the world does.
it's partly because they chose not to follow existing standards and introduced new ones:

-I don't see ReWire (although I don't know for Macs) really better than VSTi. In fact, I find FL better as a VSTi considering that FL's state is saved along with your host project when used as a VSTi.

-REX could have been a simple wav file as well. I agree that a couple of years ago, beat slicing was not too common, but today it is. While FL 5 will read REX files (but can't write to them, since the format is proprietary), I much prefer the use of standard wav cue points, supported by all major audio editors. At least, Audition made the good choice in using them and giving them a meaningful label.
A wave file is a standard and can be much more powerful than a REX file, even just because you can compress the audio data with any codec you want, lossy or not. You can label your slices, you can store any meta data.. BUT on a marketing side, a CD filled with REX files sounds better than one filled with WAV files.
Meaning: the REX format didn't bring anything new, except ensuring the propellerheads that recycle was the only tool able to edit them. For the user, opting for the standard wav format would have been better.

Post

headquest wrote:
sickle666 wrote:
Maybe cause the site's called KvR-vst.com, not KvR-ReWire..
Fair point, but don;t underestimate ReWire...

The whole point of ReWire is that it allows you to apply your VST effects to your Reason tracks (as insert/send and master out...)

OK, so you can produce complete songs in Reason in standalone/closed format mode, but for goodness sakes - this isn't the limits of the programme. If it were, I would certainly agree with all the criticisms levelled at it!

But most Reason users I know (amateur and pro musicians) use the programme in ReWire mode so that they can use VST/AU/etc effects and mastering.

ReWire can in effect turn any music software into a VST "host" in this way. It basically acts like a wrapper.

And this is precisely why KVR-VST should be interested in Reason and its myriad of users worldwide - because most of us are keen to use VST plugins with our favourite software!

(In my case I use Reason alongside Tracktion, Audition and Live, all of which are excellent programmes, and all of which integrate using ReWire. I use free and paid-for VST effects and VSTi synths as well. Reason is not anti-VST, just one part of the whole package.)
Fair point of your fair point. It's just not the direct context of this site, but adhering to that's really not how it goes here as you well know.

I think they're all good apps. Especially when they can be utilized in conjunction whether through VSTi or ReWire..For the record, I own licenses for Live, Orion Plat, FL Studio AND Reason..

Orion's simply the one that I 'jelled' with best, is all.

That & I have a thing for backing the underdog :evil:

Post

sickle666 wrote:& how did Project 5 get in there & Orion didn't? I've never even seen a Project 5 user in here.. :x
You have now. :)

I like P5 because it is an open system -- although the program comes with the basics, you can use whatever synths and effects you want, unlike Reason.

I've had FL through all of its incarnations, and find it to be overly complicated. In fact, all I use it for these days is the daily download to see what the latest hip hop wizard has come up with. It seems to have a specific musical niche that is fine for that genre, but IMHO gets tiresome.

P5 lends itself to any kind of music you want to produce. The interface is intuitive and customizable. I can easily play around with sounds and get a musical theme going in just a few minutes.

I like Live 4 for it’s similar interface. I got Live 3 in anticipation of MIDI & audio functionality in Live 4, which P5 hasn’t fully incorporated yet. However, I was somewhat disappointed that Live 4 doesn’t handle MIDI very eloquently. I’m sure Cakewalk’s next P5 upgrade will run circles around it.

Except for the recording capability of Live in the session view, and its warping/beat matching features, I prefer P5’s clip handling. In Live 4, you have to do some fancy dancing between the session view and the track view to divide or combine clips.

Preference is mostly about what you’re used to. But I felt right at home with P5 from the beginning, and find it to be a great composition tool.

Post

mike85021 wrote:
sickle666 wrote:& how did Project 5 get in there & Orion didn't? I've never even seen a Project 5 user in here.. :x
You have now. :)

I like P5 because it is an open system -- although the program comes with the basics, you can use whatever synths and effects you want, unlike Reason.
I second that.

I come into softsynth studios from a Finale background, instead of a hardware studio background (though I have recorded in professional studio on a number of occasions, just not as engineer): so the left-to-right-scrolling window way of interacting with a piece of music in progress is as natural to me as breathing. Plus it's an open environment.

That's pretty much why I chose P5 over Reason. I'd never heard of Orion or Storm at the time, and now that I've tried the demos they really seem more geared towards dance music (heavy reliance on step-sequencing) although I'm sure a power user could do more.

Right now I'm working on a rock/pop/progressive album in P5 and Sonar. I'm loving the workflow.

Post

The big 150! :) Thanks for taking the time to express your views and place those votes.

The FL studio percentage seems to be slipping and P5 users have more recently also shared their experiences.

There really is a pretty big following for Orion it would seem...almost as many votes for Orion as Reason!

I wonder why then so little is said about it. :roll: This is the very reason why I did not include it as a main option. I remember someone in Computer music magazine writing in and asking for a tutorial or review of Orion it just seems strange to have that much of a following and the magazines hardly mention it at all. :roll: Magazines can be misleading at times... :?

As for P5 well it certainly has its strengths and is a very quick way to work I can tell you 8)

I really assumed Reason would totally swamp the votes here...amazing. :wink:

FL...well the percentage was 53% or so but that has slipped down to 40 odd% I wonder if this means FL studio users account for most of the KVR members that initially saw this thread but now other KVR members and users of other softstudios have seen the thread they are voting as well..it could be an interesting final vote count....(as it's a rolling poll the final number may never be known) :hihi: this thread is a great starting point for someone in the market for a softstudio though, and I appreciate all your input guys...thanks for taking the time. 8)

I would have certainly loved to have read a thread like this before stepping out into soft studio territory. :wink:
Last edited by christianmusicmaker on Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post

Currently my setup is Reason with Tracktion rewired it. I also use EnergyXT for it's wonderful use of routing.

Now, I've tried a huge chunk of the programs that are out there. I started off being an FL user, and I spent a good year trying to get into. I found it's interface really hard to grasp, and I never got the feeling that it would do the things I had imagined in my mind. I stumbled into Reason, and I've been stuck on it ever since. I quickly found it to be one of the easiest software packages that I have ever seen, and I was able to do everything in it that I could never figure out how to do in FL.

Not to knock any FL users here, but I've heard better music produced from Reason than I have from FL. That's a personal preference, and I can further explain why I think that. I think that FL is tailored more towards the techno/dance music genre, and it may be a bit better designed for that sort of thing than Reason is. I'm not a big lover of techno, so that's most likely the reason I don't enjoy what I hear out of it.

I never really understood the big deal with Reason not having VST support. It has tons of great effects built into it, but if I truly desire to use a VST...I can with rewire. That's something I rarely do, though. I think Propellerhead is smart for not including VST support into their software. For one it makes it much easier to support, and I can respect that. The biggest thing I learned with Reason is that you really need to read the damn manual and understand everything that goes on with that program. Once you do, a whole new world opens up for you.

Personally, I just found Reason to be a more professional tool. I'm not saying that you can't make professional music with FL, but in my eyes Reason is the way to go. Also, I have a live rig that I have set up with Reason. In the time that I used FL, I never had the feeling that it would work for me in a live situation.

Post

...

Post

[quote="mike85021
I like Live 4 for it’s similar interface. I got Live 3 in anticipation of MIDI & audio functionality in Live 4, which P5 hasn’t fully incorporated yet. However, I was somewhat disappointed that Live 4 doesn’t handle MIDI very eloquently. I’m sure Cakewalk’s next P5 upgrade will run circles around it.

Except for the recording capability of Live in the session view, and its warping/beat matching features, I prefer P5’s clip handling. In Live 4, you have to do some fancy dancing between the session view and the track view to divide or combine clips.

[/quote]

don't know how you could say that, live has the quickest audio clip manipulation, sequencing, and routing of any software ever created. why do a little dance between session and arranger view just to combine clips, thats what the scene rows are for, its simply easy as pie to combine a row of clips and trigger them with one scene button click, or in the arranger view line them up side by side, use clip automation on all of them if you will, or play clips mpc fashion from the session into the arranger view and micro edit to taste complete with automation. there is nothing quicker than banging out arrangements in that fashion.....i dunno maybe you haven't spent enough time with it.

Post

christianmusicmaker wrote: There really is a pretty big following for Orion it would seem...almost as many votes for Orion as Reason!


I really assumed Reason would totally swamp the votes here...amazing. :wink:
Reason has a much bigger user base than Orion, but im guessing there are prob more Orion users than Reason users on this site (or close amounts) because Orion is VST compatible, whereas Reason isnt, so many users wouldnt visit a site dedicated to plugins (regardless of ReWire)

Post

headquest wrote:because I researched independant professional opinion and read reviews.
For example, Computer Music awarded the following:
Or how about Sound on Sound
So you don't think that magazines might just be the tiniest bit influenced by marketing budgets? I can hardly blame them but I certainly wouldn't trust them. Knowing several people who write software reviews for music and graphic art magazines, I am well aware of the fact that unfamiliar software will inevitably not get a full and decent review because reviewers never have time to get stuck in. if something is not immediately obvious or familiar it is most unlikely to get a good workout and therefore a decent review. I am yet to read a review of ORION that comes within a bull's roar of covering more than the very obvious features. But then I stopped buying those useless magazines about 6 years ago, having been completely misled one too many times.
And if I wanted to be rude to you, I'd call you a f**king dickhead, you dumb c**t.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

Post

stale bread wrote:i dunno maybe you haven't spent enough time with it.
That's undoubtedly true. However, when I mentioned manipulating clips, I wasn't speaking of the type of things you listed, and of which I'm aware. Live’s handling of clips on the fly is ingenious, and central to its DJ style of play.

Live’s warp feature is great, and being able to position warp markers to the beat is amazing.

I may be wrong, but I can’t see any easy way to actually edit clips in Live. I’m talking about cutting sections out of a loop, or rearranging sections within a loop. I can do some minor editing with the “Consolidate” function, and pull the changed clip into the track view. I wanted to modify a clip to be half of its original length, and couldn’t find any editing feature to accomplish that. When I thought I’d accomplished that and looked at the clip in the clip view, it was intact, but only playing part of the clip.

If I’m missing a vital clip editing feature, please enlighten me.

In P5 and Acid, you can easily select slices of a clip, and don’t have to fiddle with offsets to play exactly the portion of it you want to hear.

When you know how to do something it’s easy.

I’m not attacking Live. For me, it’s the easiest way to start a song using clips. But I don’t always start a song using clips, and for me, sequencing is much more easily done in P5.

Post

BONES wrote: So you don't think that magazines might just be the tiniest bit influenced by marketing budgets? I can hardly blame them but I certainly wouldn't trust them. Knowing several people who write software reviews for music and graphic art magazines, I am well aware of the fact that unfamiliar software will inevitably not get a full and decent review because reviewers never have time to get stuck in. if something is not immediately obvious or familiar it is most unlikely to get a good workout and therefore a decent review. I am yet to read a review of ORION that comes within a bull's roar of covering more than the very obvious features. But then I stopped buying those useless magazines about 6 years ago, having been completely misled one too many times.
6 years is quite a long time! The reviews I've seen of both these products have been fairly comprehensive.

Having said that, I am interested in trying the Orion demo based on the various recommendations people have made on this site. Although I guess that as a confirmed Reason user I'm unlikely to make the swap 8) ... but it's useful to know what's out there...

Incidentally, does Orion support ReWire? As I've said in other replies above, I don;t use Reason as a standalone application ... even if I fully produce tracks using Reason I still ReWire them into a host (usually Adobe Audition now) in order to do more advanced professional mixing and mastering, so without ReWire I would find that a disadvantage.
And if I wanted to be rude to you, I'd call you a f**king dickhead, you dumb c**t.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”