Do all DAWs suck?

[Hink]

Wow, just one day and I cannot even keep up with this thread... have to read it all when I got more time.

Although just quickly reading through page one I guess some people missed my point, others didn't.

Yes, most DAWs are bloated to no end while missing essential features on the other hand. BTW: My system is high end, my RME is set to 1024 samples. Most computers and DAWs won't be able to play what I expect to play.

It's just - I stopped making music more than a decade ago. As a graphics designer I kept up with the development of computers and one fine day last year I thought: Man, computers developed so much, multi track VSTs will make a modern CPU idle around. Oh boy I was wrong.

Yes, I've made full tracks, quite a few. Yes I can freeze and I do it occasionally. Yes I use send fx. Yes I toggle my plugs between realtime and full quality.

No, I'm not looking for an excuse. I'm looking for a DAW that doesn't suck. Something that just works. Isn't that what Apple Fanboys always say? "It just works"? (A lie). But yeah, that's what I want, I don't wanna fiddle around with tech crap.

Get hardware they said. Get rich or die tryin they said. I think hardware sucks more. It's for people who like to play with that stuff in a technical way. Look at the modular synths those guys buy. You cannot tell me they buy it solely for the sound of it.

so what did you expect from this thread?

1. The title is stated in an extreme negative starting the thread off in a negative direction and pretty much inviting controversy

2. The question really boils down to a "what is the best DAW" thread, which has been done to death and those threads pretty much always become controversial

3. Everyone's experience is different so you're going to get many different replies and again pretty much inviting controversy.

Ultimately it will come down to you trying each DAW until you find the one that fits you best, but likely not perfect. There's an awful lot of us who did just that and at the end of the day the pros of our DAWs outweigh the cons for us, but it does come down to what is best for that particular user.

[rod_zero]

Everything goes into end result, but these days on forums I think it's just over the top pissing contest of golden ears and GAS excuses more than anything, we got hi quality tools for all pockets that get's the job done and difference between them isn't that big as some folks make it look like.

True, people is just lazy and blames the tools when in reality they are just lazy and lack the discipline required for music production.

[hollyWorse]

so what did you expect from this thread?

1. The title is stated in an extreme negative starting the thread off in a negative direction and pretty much inviting controversy

2. The question really boils down to a "what is the best DAW" thread, which has been done to death and those threads pretty much always become controversial

3. Everyone's experience is different so you're going to get many different replies and again pretty much inviting controversy.

Ultimately it will come down to you trying each DAW until you find the one that fits you best, but likely not perfect. There's an awful lot of us who did just that and at the end of the day the pros of our DAWs outweigh the cons for us, but it does come down to what is best for that particular user.

You got that wrong. I wasn't complaining about the thread. I was amazed how quickly it had grown. People seem to like controversy.

[generaldiomedes]

The point is that blaming bad tools for the bad results they give has absolutely nothing to do with being a bad craftsman.

Lets see .. you can
- Be a bad craftsman who gets bad results regardless of tools and admits they are bad
- Be a bad craftsman who gets bad results with good tools but blames their tools
- Be a bad craftsman who gets bad results with bad tools and blames their tools
- Be a good craftsman who gets good results with bad tools but still complains about their tools

Which is the O/P? I don't know if we'll ever know ..

[Distorted Horizon]

Just demo every DAW available and choose what fits your needs.. That's what I did

My personal favorites are Bitwig, Reason and Reaper.

[Rappo Clappo]

Anyway, now matter how you look at it; you'll get a lot of average results until you get a good result. Or something like that.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Yes, most DAWs are bloated to no end while missing essential features on the other hand. BTW: My system is high end, my RME is set to 1024 samples. Most computers and DAWs won't be able to play what I expect to play.

It might help of you were a bit more specific. "High end" can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. Intel? AMD? I5? I7?

As well, how are all DAWs "bloated to no end while missing essential features on the other hand"? How are they bloated? And what are the features you seem to think are essential but are missing?

[Jace-BeOS]

Nah. They each have pluses and minuses but "all suck"? Again, nah.

But all 3D modeling & rendering packages suck

[thecontrolcentre]

Having learned using a Tascam 244 I'd say all modern DAWs are fuckin awesome. Automatic time-stretching? No problemo. Pick one and make some choons

[hollyWorse]

As well, how are all DAWs "bloated to no end while missing essential features on the other hand"? How are they bloated? And what are the features you seem to think are essential but are missing?

I7 6900k, whole system maxed out.

How about being able to mute / unmute a track on $4000 gear without getting a loss of audio? Or being able to turn on a send without the whole latency compensated thing running completely out of sync?

Right, what about being able to convert a step sequencer / midi track into an arpeggiator pattern on the fly? You know what you can do in Sonar to make your own arpeggiator patterns? Nothing. It's not possible.

Sorry, but my opinion is that most people making music have settled with the whole thing being buggy and limited to no end. Just read some reviews about a Virus Ti2 - "Midi notes hang, you cannot insert the plugin into multiple tracks, interface is a mess, unable to use all channels at the same time... " not my reviews, I don't own a Virus.

Yeah the whole shit is complex, I get it. But it's also expensive and nowhere in the world of computers I ever saw such believers in the "holy companies" just wanting our best while the noobs are unable to recognize their workflow is wrong. You shouldn't mute tracks while playback.

[Mister Natural]

the alternative to any and all DAWs : https://reverb.com/item/5259135-mci-jh2 ... uder-ampex

peace

[pdxindy]

I think what I expect is a tool to make music in realtime using a ton of softynths and plugins. A DAW isn't that tool. A DAW is made for multitrack recording audio. For tracking e.g. a real band and mixing it.

But what tool is there as alternative? None? Yep.

Audio is very challenging... it is time dependent, cpu intensive and everything is not only time dependent but must also be sync'ed... and all in realtime!

It is not the DAW that is the limitation, but the computers and OS'es themselves.

As for the various DAW's... they have to deal with multiple platforms, current and older OS'es, a huge range of hardware (f.e. audio interfaces) and various plugin formats with many plugins using 'creative' coding methods to get around certain limitations. The DAW developers have no control over most or any of that.

Based on all of the above, in a certain sense, one can say all DAW's suck. One can also say they are amazingly capable tools. Finally, one has to decide whether one is going to accept the limitations and work with them to accomplish ones aims.

[JJ_Jettflow]

As well, how are all DAWs "bloated to no end while missing essential features on the other hand"? How are they bloated? And what are the features you seem to think are essential but are missing?

I7 6900k, whole system maxed out.

How about being able to mute / unmute a track on $4000 gear without getting a loss of audio? Or being able to turn on a send without the whole latency compensated thing running completely out of sync?

Right, what about being able to convert a step sequencer / midi track into an arpeggiator pattern on the fly? You know what you can do in Sonar to make your own arpeggiator patterns? Nothing. It's not possible.

Sorry, but my opinion is that most people making music have settled with the whole thing being buggy and limited to no end. Just read some reviews about a Virus Ti2 - "Midi notes hang, you cannot insert the plugin into multiple tracks, interface is a mess, unable to use all channels at the same time... " not my reviews, I don't own a Virus.

Yeah the whole shit is complex, I get it. But it's also expensive and nowhere in the world of computers I ever saw such believers in the "holy companies" just wanting our best while the noobs are unable to recognize their workflow is wrong. You shouldn't mute tracks while playback.

I until recently I had far from the best machine; AMD 8320 with a Focusrite 2i2 Gen2 running Cubase and Reaper using the massively hungry Roland Cloud plugs and never has any of the problems you are describing. I would simply run our of CPU cycles and have to start freezing/rendering tracks.

Have you done any PC tweaking? Like shutting off core park, etc? That energy-saving stuff can really mess up a DAW.

I recently built an R7 to replace the 8320.

[incubus]

True, people is just lazy and blames the tools when in reality they are just lazy and lack the discipline required for music production.

That is utter shit.

Just for me personally, I make all the f**king time. It has nothing to do with being lazy, (insert negative comment here)

I don't know why people like taking the side like this, but there are people that have made better music than you that hate their hosts

[xbitz]

no offense, Cubase Artist /Pro 9 (finally don't have to open/close zillions of window in it) with some parallel/modular fx VST (Cubase not really good in modulation things) is generally quite good as starter IMO, for ex. with

Massive Modular

from http://plugmon.org/massive-modular/ needs a Zebra ofc.

but what is your problem with Cubase, if somebody trying to change their DAW to Cubase and is in some EDM > trance related genre this

from 789TenDotCom is superb 4+hours tutorial, thx to Ørjan Nilsen

(Retrospective Record in Cubase is priceless IMO, helped me zillions times to create good melodies)